File photo of PM Modi taking a dip at the Sangam in Prayagraj during the Kumbh Mela | narendramodi/Instagram
File photo of PM Modi taking a dip at the Sangam in Prayagraj during the Kumbh Mela | narendramodi/Instagram
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India’s Left, liberal and progressive intellectuals like to pin the blame for all public displays of religiosity and obscurantism on the BJP, the RSS and Prime Minister Narendra Modi. That’s incorrect.

Jawaharlal Nehru’s India was no better in scientific temperament. That is just popular liberal mythology, just as the ‘idea of India’ was. In fact, I would like to assert that religiosity and superstitions in public and state life is a Nehruvian legacy.

Just this week, India’s enlightened frowned at the display of festivity on 5 April when many people celebrated a ‘mini Diwali’ and burst fire crackers, blew conch shells and chanted hymns. The same woke anger was on display on the day of Janata Curfew, when people danced on the streets and banged utensils or when the effigy of Corona-asur was burnt by people.

The common refrain was that the Hindutva forces have destroyed the scientific temperament, which was the hallmark of Indian democracy. According to them, everything went for a toss after the BJP came to power at the Centre in 2014.

Echoing this sentiment, on 6 April, the Congress party tweeted: “Our nation was founded on the principles and institutions of building scientific temper… we must not lose sight of our inherent values.”

Also read: Poke fun at taali, thaali, diya and mombatti all you want. Modi couldn’t care less

Nehru’s India wasn’t modern

No doubt that the acts of many people on these two occasions can be best described as the theatre of absurd. Columnist Sagarika Ghose tweeted: “The depths of superstition and foolishness that India is now descending into is so dark and so fetid, that it’s questionable whether we’ll ever be able to climb out again. And yet how hard our founders fought for rationality, for sanity, for escape from blind beliefs.”

The hermeneutic reading of the tweet suggests that in India, there was a time of scientific temper and reason, which is now being destroyed. It interprets that our founders had a vision to promote rational beliefs and thoughts.

But India never really went through an equivalent of the Enlightenment. There has never been any grand discontinuity with the notion that the religious past had all the answers. This is unlike Western democracies where the roots of modernity were laid centuries ago to make way for the intended scientific and industrial revolutions. This could happen only because of the separation of religion and the state. Indian modernity, on the other hand, is skin-deep, like a layer of makeup, and whenever it flakes, the true face of ‘Indian tradition’ becomes visible.

M.K. Gandhi wanted to bring back ‘Ram Rajya’. The RSS wants a ‘Hindu Rashtra’. But what about Nehru? Was he a harbinger of modernity or had he also discovered some glorious past in Indian history that he wanted to bring back?

My contention is that Nehru never intended to usher modernity in Indian society and the India we see today is not much different from the India that he most likely dreamt of. Even if he did want the scientific temper to take over the everyday superstitious mind, he never let it take form, even become known, through his actions. The Western concept of secularism was brought into Indian state with a twist: Sarva Dharma Sambhava — all religions are equal.

Also read: Mantralaya’s room 602 — an office so ‘unlucky’ that Ajit Pawar has refused to occupy it

Birth of a religious state

Independence was one of the best opportunities for India to break itself free from the past. But our “founders”, including Nehru, decided against rupturing the established norm.

B.R. Ambedkar had rightly said at the end of the Constituent Assembly debate that “on the 26th January 1950, (India) will be entering into a life of contradictions”. That contradiction was on full display on the day India got freedom.

Larry Collins and Dominique LaPierre chronicled the events of 14 August 1947 in their seminal book Freedom at Midnight . They wrote how Nehru was readied for the occasion by two south Indian priests. “They sprinkled Jawaharlal Nehru with holy water, smeared his forehead with sacred ash, laid their scepter on his arms and draped him in the cloth of God….Nehru submitted to it with almost cheerful humility. It was almost as if that proud rationalist had instinctively understood that in the awesome tasks awaiting him no possible source of aid, not even the occult that he so scornfully dismissed, was to be totally ignored.”

It seems that for Nehru, modernity and scientific temperament was like clothes he could wear and discard almost at will.

At the residence of Rajendra Prasad, the president of Constituent Assembly, a sacred fire was lit and a Brahmin priest chanted Vedic mantras. Collins and LaPierre write: “As the priest repeated his atonal chant, the learned men and women who would shortly become the first ministers of an independent India filed past the fire. A second Brahman sprinkled each with a few drops of water.”

This happened just a few minutes before they all entered the hall for the ceremony that marked India’s independence.

The authors describe how the date and time of Indian independence was debated because some astrologers believed that the morning of 15 August was ‘inauspicious’ due to the celestial positioning of ‘shani’ and ‘rahu’. Phillips Talbot, then South Asia correspondent for the Chicago Daily, also wrote about it in a letter to his friend in the US: “Astrologers had discovered that the morning of August 15-the day designated for the transfer of power was an inauspicious time. Partly for this reason and partly because they were well aware of the drama of the occasion, Congress leaders decided on a midnight session of the Indian Constituent Assembly to assume authority at the stroke of 12.”

Also read: With Rafale puja, Rajnath Singh was just Hindu Everyman. Criticising him is political suicide

Keeping the ‘Brahminical tradition’ alive

The events of the time clearly show that religiosity and tradition became the masonic stone of the new Indian democracy. This is how the famed ‘idea of India’ took shape and we now see innumerous footprints and fingerprints of that idea of aborted modernity in our national public life today.

– Whenever the Indian Space Research Organisation launches a satellite, it is customary for the chief to pay his (ISRO has never had a woman chief) obeisance at Tirupati or some other Hindu temple.

– Whenever a foreign acquired fighter jet is inducted into the Indian Air Force, a puja is performed. Defence minister Rajnath Singh drew a swastika with kumkum on the Rafale aircraft.

– Whenever a Navy vessel starts its maiden voyage, a coconut is broken and a puja is performed.

– Almost all government functions start with some vandana and lighting of lamps.

– In language text books, religious scriptures are taught. The religion in this case is always Hinduism. We can draw a long list of such instances.

I am not saying these acts are good or bad. My contention is that such things started at the very onset of our democratic journey. We adopted a modern system of governance but also kept our traditional, superstitious structures alive. What we proudly call ‘Indian culture’ is actually the Brahminical hegemonic tradition. We never find manifestations of other Indian cultural schools like Kabirpanth, Lingayat, Animist, Sarna, Ajivak, Siddha, Jogi and other streams in state and public structures and functions.

Four years ago, author Gauri Lankesh narrated how the first President of the Indian Republic, Rajendra Prasad, reverentially washed the feet of 201 Brahmins in Banaras and drank the water. Socialist Ram Manohar Lohia had described it at the time as a “vulgar act”.

A similar vulgarity was on display recently when people turned a global health crisis into a  Diwali festival, never mind the COVID-19 related trauma, displacement and deaths. Nehru never called for a complete embrace of rationality and modernity even when he had the opportunity, pollical capital and right historical moment to do so.

The author is the former managing editor of India Today Hindi magazine, and has authored books on media and sociology. Views are personal.

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40 Comments Share Your Views


  1. For all the whites who place their life in the hands of an Indian ,



    The Hindoo morons did not know that the Earth Rotates and that the Sun is still !

    Even a FOOL knows that the earth rotates on its axis causing day and night.

    But according to Vedas, the earth is static and this statement is repeated several times. The following are some of the examples:

    1. Oh Man ! He who made the trembling earth static is Indra. (Rig Ved 2/12/12)
    2. The God who made the earth stable (Yajur Ved 32/6)
    3. Indra protects the wide earth which is immovable and has many forms (Atarv Ved 12/1/11)
    4. Let us walk on the Wide and Static earth (Atharv Ved 12/1/17)

    As the Veds Claim that the earth is static and so they tried to prove that the sun moves around the earth.

    The following statement from the rig Ved tries to clarify it:

    “Sun is full of light and knows all the human beings, so his horses take him to sky to look at the world” (Rig Ved 1/50/1)
    “O, Bright sun, a chariot named harit with seven horses takes you to sky” (Rig Ved 1/50/8)

    A Universal Fact

    While proving the existence of scientific knowledge in Veds, some go to the extent of claiming that the sun has magnetic powers or powers of attraction of gravity.

    “O, man, the sun who is most attractive, takes round of the earth, on his golden chariot through the sky and removes the darkness of the earth” (Yajur Ved 33/43)

    As for the moon, the Veds have only to say that it runs in the space, which is full of water – a universal fact that no one can deny, hence nothing new. (Rig Ved 1/105/1)


    • You are comparing writings of Rig veda, the oldest scripture, thousands years before Christ was borne, with our present astronomical knowledge?
      Well, it is being modern to ridicule Hindu beliefs. Did you try writing something about Quran? Afraid, right?

    • Well, learn about vedas and texts. You simply can’t type anything without knowing. Vedas have all the knowledge of the world. Sun’s distance from earth is mentioned in Hanuman Chalisa. And how do you think they became a universal fact? Because people knew and people found proof. Bimbo

    • So how Hindus find out there are 9 planets i.e., Navgraha in the solar system when now people need telescope to find out?

      ‘Hanuman Chalisa’ Precisely Calculates The Distance Between Earth And Sun

      “Yug sahasra yojana par bhanu,

      leelyo taahi madhura phal jaanu”

      1 Yuga = 12000 years. 1 Sahsra Yuga = 12000000 years. Also, 1 Yojan = 8 miles.

      Hence, “Yug Sahsra Yojana”, the first 3 words mean 12000*12000000*8 = 96000000 miles or 153,600,000 kilometers. Interestingly, the actual distance from earth to sun is 152,000,000 kms. Bafflingly, there’s error of just around 1%.

      Hindus find out the existence of gravity:-

      [Rig Veda 10.22.14]

      ahastÁ yád apádI várdhata kSÁH shácIbhir vedyÁnAm
      shúSNam pári pradakSiNíd vishvÁyave ní shishnathaH

      Translation : This earth is devoid of hands and legs, yet it moves ahead. All the objects over the earth also move with it. It moves around the sun.

      [Rig Veda 10.149.1]

      savitÁ yantraíH pRthivÍm aramNAd askambhané savitÁ dyÁm adRMhat
      áshvam ivAdhukSad dhúnim antárikSam atÚrte baddháM savitÁ samudrám

      Translation : Sun has tied Earth and other planets through attraction and moves them around itself as if a trainer moves newly trained horses around itself holding their reins.

      “The sun has held the earth and other planets” – Atharva Veda 4.11.1

      Hindus already knew the speed of light:-

      Sayana, a vedic scholar from the 14th century once said, “With deep respect, I bow to the sun, who travels 2,202 yojanas in half a nimesha.” A yojana is 9 miles; a nimesha is 16/75 of a second. Therefore, 2,202 yojanas x 9 miles x 75/8 nimeshas = 185,794 miles per second or 2,99,000 kilometers per second. That’s astonishingly close to the real ‘scientifically-proven’ 3,00,000 kilometers per second figure.

      Vedas Explained The Science Behind The Rather ‘Feared’ Eclipses

      [Rig Veda 5.40.5]

      “O Sun! When you are blocked by the one whom you gifted your own light (moon), then earth gets scared by sudden darkness.”

      Hindus Knew The Exact Length Of A Year

      Ancient Indians used 4 ways to measure the length of a year namely ‘Nakshatra’, ‘Savana’, ‘Lunar’ and ‘Saura’. Saura was one method based on the tropical zodiac that defines the seasons: equinoxes, solstices, year-halves, and months in relation to the (six) seasons. As unbelievable as it sounds, Saura estimates the length of a year to be exactly 365 days, 6 hours 12 mins and 30 seconds.

      Aryabhatta’s Deduction Of The Value Of Pi

      The great Indian mathematician Aryabhata worked on the approximation of the value of pi ( ), and concluded that is irrational and its value is approximately 3.1416. He did this in 499 Common Era at the age of 23.

      Hindus were the First Ones To Measure The Circumference Of Earth

      Aryabhata, who deduced a formulation proving that the Earth is rotating on an axis. Then, by estimating the value of pi to be 3.1416, he concluded that the circumference of Earth was approximately 39736 kilometers. The actual circumference of Earth, as deduced by scientists today, is 40,075 kilometers

      Now let’s come to the topic you’re talking about:-

      First of all, translations of Sanskrit language to English not ‘accurate’ and wrong chosen words. Even sanskrit experts have difficulties in defining the meaning of some words. And here is my explanation for your specific question. Let me answer this using your quotes itself.

      The very first quote is against the earth static view.

      Oh Man ! He who made the trembling earth static is Indra. (Rig Ved 2/12/12)

      Just give proper look at this sentence and get what is the meaning of this sentence. This is an exclamatory sentence where it is emphasizing the power of Indra. The sentence simply means the Indra is powerful enough to make the “trembling and moving earth still”.
      That means rigveda is sure about it’s movement. So the first quote proves that the static theorem which you pointed is wrong.

      The God who made the earth stable (Yajur Ved 32/6)

      The word ‘stable’ does not mean the earth is still, it means it is stable and constant in terms of following its axis around Sun.

      Take a look at the synonyms of static: unchanged, fixed, stable, steady, unchanging, changeless, unvarying, invariable, constant, consistent, uniform, undeviating.

      Indra protects the wide earth which is immovable and has many forms (Atarv Ved 12/1/11)
      ‘Immovable’ means which can not be moved by a force. That does not mean it is static. The text could be from a point of view from a common man, for him it is certainly immovable. Isn’t it?

      Let us walk on the Wide and Static earth (Atharv Ved 12/1/17)
      The only quote which has a word ‘static’ is this one(and the question is up with the helping hand from this quote only). As this is only a translation, this one also can not be counted as a relevant one to be put forward the static earth view in the question.

      And please see the synonyms of static: unchanged, fixed, stable, steady, unchanging, changeless, unvarying, invariable, constant, consistent, uniform, undeviating

      Also as mentioned in the other answers here, vedas known that earth is round and it is rotating around sun ages before the modern scientists.

  2. What is the distance between 1947 to 2014..are we going back or moving forward? Narendra modi& Bjp need to be criticised.

  3. The current regime may have perennial dwellings in everything related to Nehruvian era and ideology. But, by what yard sticks does the author find a delight in comparing the contemporary period with the historically dated 70 years. The author himself is devoid of any scientific understanding, just plain sycophancy on display. It’s absolutely unwise to compare two eras in history

  4. If at all Congress is striving for Scientific temperament ‘”Then let them first prove Whether Babar, Humayun and Akbar are Genetically Indians ‘ Let a separate Independent investigative agency varify this ‘
    Which they( Congress) will Ultimately fail.”
    Beacause Babar Father belongs to Ujbekistan and his mother is from Mongolia .

  5. Nehru & Congress rule later on didn’t paid full attention on education& control of population.Nehruji was advissed by his collegues during 19555-56 that population control scheme must be started now
    But Nehruji’s blunt reply was that country will prosperous with as many
    as hands for working, but hid this theory totally failed,bcz food was in scarcity.Sanjay i started this very stricktly but unfornately he was murdered.His loss India is still suffering.Every time making Muslims as vote bank has weakened our democracy. Untill one. Nation one rule is not seriously with clear-cut pluses & minuses we will continue to remain dependent on religious acts.Blind acts r wrong. Entering Is time Parliament House by Modiji & paying respect at gate is best sign of religion.

  6. Mr Mandal – the real casteist stooge. This case of following system is always Hinduism. Because Hinduism is followed by 80% of our country. And the base of our country and civilization similar to like Chinese base is Taoist-confucian and Arabia’s Islam. We are Indian not Arabi followers or Vatican followers. We will follow our 4 Indian dharmic faiths of Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhism. Better you get this into your mind casteist stooge.

  7. This task was a pure psychological step from PM modi. We should appreciate the way people celebrated it. For the leftists and liberals ( so called) this problem will remain forever.

  8. Our constitution aspires building of a scientific temperament in each Indian citizen.. It was very rightly conceived a Modern India demanded a radical change in its contemporary thinking.. But sans the constitutional aspirations we still remain more occupied with the life in heaven than life on earth.. Obscurantism and scientific temperament cannot coexist.

  9. Ridiculous to suggest that Nehru believed in the religious rituals.
    When Rajendra Prasad and Nehru were set to enter the Kanya Kumari temple, and were asked to bare their bodies before entering the temple, Prasad obliged; but Nehru politely declined and left for the Guest house. My brother was a witness

  10. The writer thinks that Western countries are “enlightened”… Lol.
    Britain has a National Church. In USA, if you had paid notice, several Political Rallies, etc. start with a “Prayer to the Lord”.

    Commies like the writer are in a minority all over the world and should rightly remain so.

    • The Western political leaders during this Covid 19 crisis are mostly flanked by scientists and doctors when addressing press. They also always use the word ‘science’.

  11. Nehru coined the expression “scientific temper’ and explained it 1946 in his book The Discovery of India.

  12. What kind of perverted article is this? What’s the problem of these leftists/ liberals with our indigenous culture, religion and our way of life. They are always the ones trying to belittle our culture and country so that they can look very superior. If you really have so much problem leave this country and move to your like minded place. Pujas are unscientific and 5 times namaaz is very scientific. At first it was the British who made fun of us and mistranslated our scriptures to show us as cavemen and now these leftists are doing the same. They just need an excuse to insult the majority to show how woke they are. Hindus have never debunked science or anything related to it. Out culture is our identity which has been handed down to us by our ancestors for thousands of years and we will make sure it stays alive. Who needs enemies when you have so many living among us. No matter how much you try to insult us to show your western masters how progressive you are, you will never be treated as equal by them.

  13. these liberals have made this world a big giant atom bomb… we all are just saying bullshit all the time… its high time for all of you not to mimic west…leave them aside…because we 21000 year old not 2000 year old. freedom is not that easy to get….freedom must be in our minds not on papers. om namah shivay….i wont let liberals take away our beliefs, inherent values. we need to accept that.

  14. Anybody with staunch Marxist/ Socialist views can hardly be called rational. In any case doing pujas, washing feet and drinking from them although irrational, are far less harmful then the staunch belief that government knows best and must do everything including baking bread. Nehru and now Modi with their strong left wing socialist ‘big government’ beliefs are much more dangerous then any number of priests, mullahs, godmen, pujaris, astrologers etc.

    • I have always maintained that Nehru’s preference for socialism was the need of the hour. In India’s feudal, and caste-ridden society, capitalism would have been ineffective (unlike America’s free-spirited entrepreneurial culture). It was Indira Gandhi who should have brought reforms on her father’s legacy post-1971 and created a culture of meritocracy. Instead, she focused on dynasty and fooled around with institutions. Modi is the kind of mass-leader who thrives on chaos, and is decisive in only those matters that contribute to his brand equity. While Indira thought she was India, Modi is trying to realise that dream. The moot point is whether times have changed? Has the art of politics evolved since 1950s? There can be a full debate on that.

      • There is some merit in this observation- “Modi is the kind of mass-leader who thrives on chaos, and is decisive in only those matters that contribute to his brand equity “. There is no doubt that Modi is the leader for chaotic times where firm, decisive and quick action is required due to sudden happening of an event. This was evident from his responses such as surgical strikes, Balakot air strike and now, in case of Covid-19. He also weighs his responses mainly from electoral politics. By itself, this is not bad but given his political standing, Modi can achieve much more beyond that narrow prism and he need not wait for some event to occur. He needs to a visionary and go much beyond electoral politics. For instance, he has failed to remove cobwebs of Nehru-Indira days of socialistic control over the economy, bring about desired reforms in police, judiciary, electoral and bureaucratic areas etc.. He has moved in each of these areas but these moves are a few and limited to the prism of political benefits. Modi should seriously think over his role and his true legacy. He should not let the country miss this historic opportunity, as we may not get such a leader with mass appeal again for a very long time. The country is standing on the cusp of being a top ranking economy in the world and a few visionary strategic decisions from Modi can make a big difference!

  15. Librals are fools – Pooja is done on faith not by Scientific ways. This is a land of divine ways and Vedas are Science – science is just proving things in Vedas to be real nothing more. Librals must also understand – Scence has already hi the Glass wall when they understood – Universe is held by 96% Black Matter & Black Energy and only 4% is all the atomic materials. The black matter or energy was already mentioned by Vedas as Shiva.
    So, ask the librals to understand that Pooja is done on faith and not Science.

    • My opinion You need to read Dr Ambedkar once. It will clear your ideas of vedas & sciences. Dr Ambedkar had a more than 2000 books on the Hindu religion in his personal library which no other Hindu pandit has. He had a more knowledge on Hindu/Vedic religion than any other Shankaracharya. So try to read him & clear your ideas about vedas. Anhillation of castes in India will also help you. Thanks

  16. Politics and religion ( and associated superstitions and beliefs ) have a symbiotic relationship. Science and rationality don’t go well with politics especially in a feudal poverty stricken set up. Nehru was an ambitious politician. He knew where the bread is buttered.

  17. It is indeed going to take a Second War of Independence in 21st century for the liberals, leftists, sickulars, Indian westerners (or whatever you might wish to call this group), to liberate their India from Hindustan! Their best times are now lost once Congress finally went out of power and now it looks like it may never return in a foreseeable future. Unfortunately, they are now left with only English Press/media, support from international NGOs and a few international anti Hindu organizations. It is Modi who stands in between them and the levers to the power again like in the old Congress days. Fortunately, Modi is not Indira and we are not likely to see the return of emergency ever. So this group is safe, will remain hyperactive active and keep causing nuisance in BJP’s march ahead but may never be able to make much dent, as Modi carries majority of population with him. It will be interesting to watch how the future for the group unfolds and if Modi loses his grip over the masses!!

  18. ROFL !! It’s all Nehruji’s fault. We didn’t know that his efforts towards setting up IIT, IIM, AIIMS, BARC, ISRO etc. etc. were only “public displays of religiosity and obscurantism”. Thanks for educating us !!!

    • Has Modi government shut down all scientific institutions? Has he NOT been at ISRO etc to encourage India’s initiatives? These two issues – Religion and Science – are NOT mutually exclusive symbolism. Both, Nehru and Modi understood that.

      • There’s a huge difference between simple religion and blind faith. If you believe that the number 9 is auspicious, as Modi seems to have done on the 5th, then you’re dealing with what is called jadu tona in Hindi. It has nothing to do with religion. It is simple ignorance.

  19. The article rightly pointed out the oddsities in Indian culture & Brahminism what do you call it. But No doubt Nehru or congress government then always more rational & has scientific temperament, that’s why most of Universties, IIT’s , IIM ‘s , Big medical projects , technological projects, businesses are founded, when we compare it to BJP it’s more religious than Congee. When we compare it to Shining India, Howdy Modi these are shows without much progress. No doubt congee was more secular than BJP, that’s why some time leftist supported them. When & whenever the government tries to not pay attention due to a large community Indian of culture by past centuries. Dr. Ambedkar was rightfully brought out the indiscrimination at right time. When ever any government tries to avoid Indian Culture & more rational or scientific temperament it loses the political ground, the leftist led WB is good example of this. That’s why the socialist & leftist are never successful in India. Evan in through out the world all countries like USA. Uk, or Islamic countries are they free from religious cultures. What Da vinchi code, the satnic veruses, or terrorism what this show? Why always blame India only.

  20. The utter stupidity of this commy-congi gang astounds me. Their knowledge of their history and heritage is so shallow and superficial, Macaulay and Marx would be proud. Instead making a nuanced or rational argument, let me put it in a language that these dimwits will understand: India has been a Hindu Rashtra and will remain one. Once it digs itself out of the nehruvian socialist ditch, India will also be a leader in scientific thought and knowledge. Now close your traps and go home, the days of your stranglehold on the Indian mind are numbered.

    • Do you really have a mind or brain? You’re unable to understand even basic logic. Hindu or Muslim, you have serious problems of illogical analysis.

  21. India’s Left, liberal and progressive intellectuals are the new TALIBAN. My way or no way.
    The minute you call yourself progressive intellectual, the rest become a bunch idiots.
    Also do not know who the Left can be liberal ?

  22. What does the writer wants to say?As Nehru were tolerating rituals and superstition it should be the norm for everybody?But there were enough spaces there for rationality and humanism at those times.At present the space for thought has diminished to void

  23. sir, it’s about the timings..nobody questioned directly when Modiji walks from temples to temples, but not to any church or mosque..

  24. It may not be appropriate to justify our nation’s detour into the state sponsored practices that doesn’t have any scientific principles just by comparing / rekindling what has happened /reported as what happened several decades earlier. In no way our secular way of appreciating all beliefs equally can be paralleled with this kind of irrational practices of driving a virus by lighting lamps and creating noises as well as chanting slogans.

    • People like you are hypocrites, nobody is lighting lamps for any virus removal, these are notions of generating positivity in our society. Your scientific idols it seems are bishops of Vaticans Or Followers of Arabic religion.

    • First of all, people didn’t light up lamps, clapped and made noise to drive virus. It was done bring thank to the health care workers who are working day and night and bring people together to fight it.

      Secondly, I guess British were equally stupid as well for clapping and making noise for the same reason?

      Get your negative arse somewhere else and get a life than being a depressed and miserable persona to purgatory


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