Sangrur (Punjab): Sangrur MP Simranjit Singh Mann believes Sikhs have become the “whipping boys” of the majoritarians in the country. The issues of the Sikhs have not been looked into since 1984, the former IPS officer and Shiromani Akali Dal (Amritsar) chief tells ThePrint in an interview.
Excerpts from the conversation.
ThePrint: A lot has happened in the past few weeks. Can you please tell us what you think about the state of policing in Punjab?
Mann: The issue is, we are heading for a general election next year. And the Congress, the BJP and the RSS, they always want to find an issue on how to fight the elections and who are the bad boys. It is either the Muslims, or the Sikhs. And this Amritpal Singh issue has been blown out of context. There is no registered case against him. If the ‘hukumat’ [authorities] wanted to arrest him, he could have been arrested on the 18th [of March] itself. He was in his bed and the police could have arrested him. The question is, why did they allow him time to collect a big convoy to march wherever he wanted to.
The idea was, according to me, that the state thought that these youngsters won’t fire at the police. That unfortunately did not happen. Because Amritpal Singh gave the slip and ran away.
ThePrint: So, you have said that Amritpal’s life is in danger. He might be killed by the police. Why do you think so?
Mann: Because he could have been caught early in the morning at 5 o’clock in the morning from his bed. Why did they allow him to make a convoy and march with 67 vehicles and then stop him?
Like Indira Gandhi in 1984, she called in the armed forces, and marched them into the most sacred place of the Sikhs — the Darbar Sahab, the Golden Temple [a reference to Operation Blue Star]. And I would say, after that Rajiv Gandhi won such a great victory. That he had one of the biggest victories because the majoritarians thought that the Sikhs have been thrashed, nice and proper. So that’s the idea. That the elections are coming, and they have to make some incident that the state is in danger. And these are the people who are endangering it and then go in for the election. That is the idea.
ThePrint: So, you’re referring to the events in history and you’re saying that the current government is also trying to impose a similar situation in Punjab right now.
Mann: Naturally, because they’re going to the polls next year. Even the BJP, the RSS and the Aam Party [Aam Aadmi Party] and all that stuff, they are no friends of the Sikhs.
ThePrint: And this time, you’re saying that this is all they’re going to do…try a similar strategy using Punjab.
Mann: Yes madam, I mean to say there was not a shot fired by Amritpal Singh. There was no Hindu killed. There was no Sikh killed. There was no Christian killed. There was no Muslim killed. Nobody was killed. And this big, big publicity by the central…your these (news) channels that the Sikhs are again up to something or the other. And you know what the channels created of this no-affair. Nobody was killed; nobody hurt. So, where’s the reason to chase a man who could have been caught in the bed early in the morning?
ThePrint: The attacks abroad on the Indian consulates, what do you have to say for that?
Mann: There are no attacks. These are peaceful demonstrations. And peaceful demonstrations are one of the fundamental rights of democracy. Which the Sikhs over there are exercising. No damage was done to any property. Nobody was killed, nobody hurt. These are demonstrations because the Sikhs now are very, very enraged that year after year, the Sikhs become the whipping boys of the majoritarians, and now it’s spreading all over the world.
ThePrint: Also, your Twitter account has been withheld…
Mann: Yes, it has been withheld.
ThePrint: Have you filed an appeal?
Mann: I have applied for an appeal. But it’s all been done because the majoritarians and the Government of India wanted that way, and it has been sealed. And I’m afraid I’ve lost my freedom of expression, freedom of speech. And it’s very unnatural for a company which operates from a good democracy to switch off my Twitter account.
ThePrint: I was also told that a lot of Punjabi channels which are broadcasting from abroad have also been facing similar blockages.
Mann: Yes, they have all been blocked out. There is a sort of a siege against the Sikhs all over the world.
And I just had two young ladies meet me and they said that we’d written something on our posts and orders came from Delhi to ask what these posts were about. So every bit of information on our telephones, or any other electronic equipment, is being sweeped, collected and then the Sikhs are harassed.
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ThePrint: Coming back to Amritpal, he has still not been caught. Where do you see this episode of chasing him going? Where do you see this ending?
Mann: I wouldn’t be able to guess where he is. He must be hiding because all India is after him. So, when the British were after Subhash Chandra Bose, he went to Iran, then to Turkey and then to Germany. And then he decided to be with the Axis powers…. Mussolini, Hitler and Tojo of Japan. So, when people are being hunted down, obviously, they are on the run and God knows where Amritpal Singh is gone now.
ThePrint: You made a statement that he should run away to Pakistan. And you said that Sikhs have done that in the past. So, this is what he should do?
Mann: Yes. When Subhas Chandra Bose went into Afghanistan, Iran and into Germany, then that is our country. That’s where we’ve been hounded out because Gandhi and Nehru and the British did not help us to keep Punjab together. They divided it in 1947 and drew the Radcliffe Line and we were ethnically cleansed from our homelands. So that’s our homelands. Half our religion is there. Our scriptures are there. Our architecture is there. Our school of painting is there. Our language is there. We have the same cuisine and everything is common.
So, if I’ve been booted out of my home, like the Kashmiri Pandits feel that they’ve also been sent out of their homeland. And if they say that we want to go back to Kashmir, there is nothing wrong. And if I’ve said that that is a part of our country, our land. And if Amritpal Singh wants to go there, he should go there.
And moreover, the Centre and all the government agencies were saying that he’s an ISI agent. If he was an ISI agent, then the ISI would sort of welcome him, “come friend”. I mean, after all, India says that he’s an ISI agent, then the ISI would say, “come friend, we are your mamas [uncles], you’ve come home”. It’s as simple as that.
ThePrint: The issues that Amritpal has raised in several of his public appearances, do you think any of the governments in Punjab have been able to address the same? And why do you think there’s so much pull that he has amongst the youth, especially?
Mann: Because the issues of the Sikhs have not been looked into since 1984. Now, we say we are a democracy and elections to the SGPC [Shiromani Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee] have not been held for the last 12 years. It’s become a lame duck parliament. Now, how will the Sikhs tolerate this injustice that the parliament duly founded by an act of law in 1975 has become a lame duck parliament all of a sudden and 12 years elections have not been held to this house.
It’s very strange and hurtful. Suppose next year the general elections to parliament are to be held and the Prime Minister and the BJP, the RSS don’t hold elections and carry on with their persons in the same offices. Do you think that would be fair? And would the people accept that? If the majoritarians won’t accept that, then they should also feel that the Sikhs don’t accept the same thing. Why can’t we have elections?
ThePrint: And these were the issues which were raised at Behbal Kalan (at an anniversary event last year organised to commemorate a 2015 sacrilege and “killings” case) which you were also a part of.
Mann: Of course.
ThePrint: But there, the AAP government had promised that it will complete the investigation within a month-and-a-half and clearly that has not happened. And many committees, many SITs have been formed to ultimately find out who were behind those attacks. But all the time, the reports are just inconclusive. So why do you think that’s happening? Why are the Punjab Police and the investigating agencies not able to solve these long-standing issues which are riling up the people in Punjab?
Mann: Yes, that’s the trouble. I should say these are simple questions. You don’t have to change the constitution or alter the law. These are simple executive issues which can be decided by the Centre and the Punjab government. Why aren’t they doing it? Why are they doing it against the Sikhs?
ThePrint: The current government has been trying to bring in a lot of new policies, basically, they’re trying to bring Punjab back on… at least, this is what it seems that they’re trying to put Punjab back on the path of development. They’re announcing an agriculture policy, come up with an industry policy. Do you think bringing jobs or improving the sectors which have not seen any innovation in the past few years will help solve any of these long-standing issues?
Mann: If the state is sincere, there are 46 lakh jobless Sikh youths. And we propose that the border with Pakistan should be open for commerce and for trade. And there’s nothing wrong with that because India is trading with China though China has occupied about 50,000 sq km of Ladakh territory since 1962, 2020 and 2022. If they can trade and there’s a deficit of $1 billion in trade to the disadvantage of India, then why can’t we trade and open the borders over here. Pakistan and the Middle East are starving. Why can’t we send our grains and our produce from Rajasthan, Haryana, Punjab, Jammu Kashmir, and Himachal Pradesh? If the border is open, it will cause a lot of benefit to the central finances because they’ll be taking a lot of money for the duty and excise purposes.
ThePrint: Will it benefit Punjab? How will opening up the borders with Pakistan help here?
Mann: Pakistan is short of wheat. It’s importing wheat from Russia and we have surplus wheat stocks over here. And then there’s the question of Basmati. Basmati was sold for just ₹4,000 a quintal over here. But if our traders and truckers cross Pakistan into Iran, the price of that same Basmati is about ₹12,000 a quintal. So you can imagine if Punjab is opened up to the Central (Asian) countries, erstwhile Russian republics and to the Islamic world, how much people would flourish in northern India. But because we are Sikhs and the fight is centuries old between the Hindu and the Muslim. So, the Sikhs have to bear the burden of this fight. Why?
ThePrint: What else do you think the state can do? Because when I spoke to the youth, most of them said that we don’t want to stay here. We want to go abroad because even if we spend time studying, there are no jobs.
Mann: I said 46 lakh jobs. We don’t have our jobs, and they don’t open the border for trade which will increase the transport. Sikhs have two things: one is agriculture and one is transport. And if transport is built up, it will help India because all the big truck makers will benefit. …people will benefit and the Sikhs will lose their unemployment and be employed in some constructive manner. Why can’t that be done?
ThePrint: And what, what do you think should be done to bring in more high-tech jobs? Like a lot of people keep complaining that we don’t have a corporate sector in Punjab, the industry hasn’t revolutionised. So, what can be done about that? What do you think the state should do?
Mann: That’s because the state and the central governments don’t represent the Sikhs. Now, for instance, I am a member of parliament and the Speaker gives time on the basis of the strength of every party. And every party has a majority of majoritarians. That means only the majoritarians are allowed to speak in parliament and Simranjit Singh Mann is just shut up. I don’t get it. Because my party is not large enough and the rules don’t allow small parties to utter a word in parliament. Isn’t that unfair? Shouldn’t some rules be changed?
ThePrint: Have you raised this in parliament?
Mann: Yes, I have.
ThePrint: What response have you got?
Mann: Just the Speaker making obscene gestures. ‘Stop, stop, stop’. No, that is not the work of the Speaker. He’s a member of parliament. And so am I a member of parliament. We are equal though he’s in the chair. And there’s a reason why he should be polite and courteous and allow me to speak.
ThePrint: Coming back to the issue of migration, a lot of people told me that they want to move to another country and especially the young boys and girls after completing their school education, they’re going. But then there’s a whole section of people who are going abroad and then applying for asylum. There, there are a bunch of children who are going on study and work visas. But then a large part of the people from Punjab are also going and seeking asylum there. And they all claim that they have come to you for help because they need letters from you. Can you please tell us about those letters?
Mann: When the state commits crime against its own people since 1984 and just recently in the case of Amritpal Singh. There’s no case, not a shot has been fired. Our security in India is in danger and by international law, we can flee the borders of India and seek asylum legitimately which people are doing. If the state rules by terror and doesn’t accept a certain set of the population as within its main population, then people are fleeing and they get a letter for me. And I’m very grateful to all the countries that honour this letter. That’s all.
ThePrint: What exactly are the contents of this letter? What do you tell the countries?
Mann: I tell them all the torture, the murders, extrajudicial killings of the Sikhs and what has transpired since 1947, subsequently in 1984, and subsequently to this very day because you’ve come to see me about Amritpal Singh. Just a hue and cry making a mountain out of a molehill and people are fleeing. Isn’t that something to worry about?
ThePrint: But coming back to these letters. A lot of people here, I spoke to some lawyers and some other people who wanted to go via study route and other channels. They say that these letters are also sometimes given to people who are not really persecuted by the state, like they don’t have any personal conflict with the police or the state. And yet these letters are given to them. Would you agree?
Mann: There is general terror of the state. Now, here’s a gentleman sitting next to you. He feels fearful that his house may be raided tonight or the following day. And you see what terror the state has committed since 1984 to the Sikh people. And there’s every reason that they don’t feel secure and safe. And international law says that you can seek asylum where your life is safe and secure.
ThePrint: Do you vet these cases when people come and reach out to you for letters? Do you speak to them personally? Do you understand what harm or danger their lives may be in?
Mann: Yes, I get reports from my junior jathedars [district heads of the party] in the field. Jathedars, they make the recommendation and then I give them a letter of asylum.
ThePrint: Do you charge them for these letters?
Mann: Not necessarily. They pay some things when election time is there and they all respect us. They do help us during the elections.
ThePrint: Are these financial benefits that they give to the party or to you personally?
Mann: Not to me personally. Not to the party. Direct to the people who put up stages, the contractors from where we take help and advertisements to reporters and all that stuff. The money goes directly to them.
ThePrint: I was in a border district yesterday [Sunday] and there I was inquiring about people who have taken these letters and a few of them told me that the money also had to be paid to the district level workers of your party. Are you aware that there is a cut, so to say, which people in the district are also charging?
Mann: No, I don’t think people take money for these letters. It’s a genuine demand of the people who are fleeing the country out of terror, and it would be unjustified if we took any money from these people who are in danger of losing their lives or their liberty.
ThePrint: And, one last thing. There are cases where it has been alleged that the police are still harassing people and these are mostly cases from the militancy days. They say that they don’t have money to even go to the US or to any other country and then seek asylum. Have they reached out to you ever for any help?
Mann: Everybody reaches out for help to me and I can help them as much as I possibly can.
ThePrint: Are these letters still being given to people if they reach out to you, say today?
Mann: If the Amritpal case has just happened recently, obviously, you are a very enlightened journalist, then it’s very obvious that there’s terror amongst [in] the states. And, they are genuine recipients of such asylum letters.
(Edited by Tony Rai)
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