ThePrint had previously reported that India & Russia are talking about 5 more regiments of the S-400, but no contracts are to be signed during the Russian president's visit.
The India-South Africa series-defining fact is the catastrophic decline of Indian red ball cricket where a visiting team can mock us with the 'grovel' word.
The chief is right . We in India are neither mentally/ physically not infrastructure wise ready to enroll women in to combat arm in any rank. I recollect some time back while sitting in a HQ I had detailed a courier party to carry cipher documents, from an ordnance unit. The unit had four lady officers and four male officers including the CO and second in command . The CO in the absence of male officers Available, perforce had to detail s young lady LT as a courier party incharge. This lady officer flatly refused to proceed on courier duty with an excuse that she will have to share a four seater first class compacompartment with the male escort. The CO was in a tight situation did not know what to do . Is it easy to say that disciplinary action should have been initiated against the lady officer for refusing to perform a bonafied duty. Mind you she was not a Jawan who could be dealt with summarily by the CO himself. She was an officer and we all know how difficult and time consuming the proceeding would have been. It is difficult to digest for the people who have served in the combat arms particularly infantry , artillery and armed corps to have women in their units as officer or troops who refuse to obey the orders in the combat aswell as not combat zone .I have also personally interacted with some of the serving lady officers, obviously from services. They expressed their difficulties as a mother while doning the uniform.
I do agree with Gen Menon that the court will force the army to enroll the women in combat arms. The politicians will cash on this issue to influence the voters. We can not compare the three lady fighter pilots of Air Force who are being quoted in social media and their working conditions with the ladies of army leading combat troops in forward areas on the border or in the highaltitude. Let the Army hierarchy, who are quite competent and know the problems of having ladies in combat arms , decide what to do . The decision should not be taken for the sake of political gains or for mere publicity. You will do yeoman service to the Army to allow the Chief take the decision on this delicate issue.
The controversy can be solved by sending women combat team on surgical strike mission. If they succeed then we should have no doubts on their capabilities
बिचार न करके एक बार भर्ती निकाली जाए । अपने-आप ही सब कुछproof ho jaega
There r to many brainless feminist who fail to understand that battle fields are not A/c offices. Are female combat soldiers mentally strong to face physical-sexual abuse (unthinkable extremely worst situation ‘ra#e’) by enemy force like Pakistan. Are we as indian citizens ready to face such incidents? Army is very right on the issue. We shouldn’t poke our fingers in everything.
Those need be recommended hysterectomy, that probably will prevent blood and calcium loss, that might help them achieving physical fitness, simultaneously there will no problems associated with maternity leaves. We as India don’t need propagate population instead we need genius, strong and fit individuals.
Women can’t be prevented from recruiting to military, those can be deployed on combat fronts. Martyrs have strengthened the nation. In case there are women martyrs, those will strengthen their genders also. Military seriously need to give them scope among combat fronts with whatever risk there might be.
Preventing women from roles they might serve (those are doing well within other territories), you mark yourself as a dumb and you have not yet achieved service standards as a whole, eventually running yourself into deficits and low standards, within upcoming times you are going be have no scope as a dumb.
I think it may be a good idea to ask the serving lady officers for their views. (It may already have been done).
If they give a honest reply w/o getting emotional they will agree that it may not be the correct time yet to open the doors.
An option is to have women units and use them for static duties in installations.
Combat role, not advisable. There is a zamin aasman ka difference between Army and the IAF and IN.
It has become fashionable to fear the Courts rather than convincing them of practicalities of Indian sociometry. First, let us grill the first batch of legal eagles joining up the Judiciary in 28 Div Sector from Oct to March and one tough judge each from Hon’ble Supreme Court and two high courts to lead the batch of trainees. All will fall in place thereafter. In so doing, formation cdrs must arrest the silly proclivity to make the routine soft and cushioned. The results will flow thereafter. Let us take care of the nation first rather than attempting to lead the comity of nations or trying to become hollow super power.
With due respect to the author, I fail to understand his point. This is a quote from the article:
“Countries that have inducted women in combat roles have not found it easy to assimilate the change and perhaps there is something to gain from their experience although there is a variance in the cultural milieu. In any case, it is a matter of mindset and what better place to change mindsets than the Indian Army.”
On the one hand the author says that the countries have not found it easy to induct women in combat role, then he says “…what better place to change mindset than the Indian Army”.
How is Indian army the best place to change mindsets? Is it some sort of an avant-garde institution, of experimental adventurism? Countries of the West I think have inducted women in combat role and if they “…have not found it easy to assimilate the change”, then what would we be trying to prove by jumping into it?
When we talk of “combat”, we cannot ignore “physical strength”. In 1971 it was said that many of our soldiers had infiltrated as MUKTI BAHINI of Bangladesh. In that type of gorilla operation, hand to hand fight might have often become inevitable. How are we going to negotiate the fact that women have less physical strength than men by God’s design? What if our soldiers are pitted in similar situations in future? Are we going to tell Pakistan or China, please send your women?
This kind of fake bravado reeks of an inferiority complex — mindlessly saying, “yes we can do it”, only out of anxiety that the other fellow may underestimate us if we don’t. There is no need to “change mindsets”. If something is infeasible, we should have the courage to say we won’t do it.
Please don’t think I am trying to be vulgar; I’m only trying to imagine a realistic situation: when the combat is on, and our lady soldier gets her menses, then will she be able to move around briskly, wearing her tampons, carrying all that load on her back, wearing thick cotton pants, crawling on her elbows? Or she’ll be given a few days off? Then who will go and wrestle with the damn enemy? And what if she’s taken prisoner of war? Will she be “treated” according to Geneva Convention? Ha! What are you talking, Sir!
It is to be welcomed that within the high military hierarchy, there are soldiers who think with their heads. It is also important for the preparation and conduct of military operations
Well articulated. Women officers do attempt to prove their mettle and have been accepted as officers in Arms & services less the combat arm. Personally I feel combat requires mental & physical robustness, especially in higher reaches and along LC. I had a lady Engineer Officer sent to open a road, as it got dark & cold I was worried stiff till she got back. Men I found were uncomfortable by her presence. Privacy gets compromised in providing security. Is it acceptable in our society today? I doubt it. Till our society stops gender discrimination, pardah, pallu and chunari, and abolished gender specific schools and colleges it unlikely to change. Why only Army first let’s have adequate representation in Parliament. No one will go to court on that issue but just for publicity target Armed Forces, an easy target for the society. Secondly killing without remorse and without pity is a difficult job. Thirdly, our Regimental system will need complete relook. Fourthly, as a trial raise a mixed BSF Battalion and deploy on LC for two years as a test case. Outcome could be revealing. Fifthly, courts before deciding must see the conditions in a forward post than being in court room to ascertain living conditions. Lastly, it a great idea time for which in Indian context is yet to arrive
Well articulated Sir. But you yourself has said what Gen Menon is alluding ie Courts will force it on us. We are an easy horse to flogg and it makes good discussion – imagine the heady cocktail made by combination of Army and Women Empowerment. So better to start working on How to Induct, we will keep getting the solutions. Regards
Sir, gender discrimination is everywhere. It is not a national issue but a global one. If you talk of eliminating it first and then women to be allowed in army, I am sure my dream of being there will never be accomplished in this life of mine. You talk of adequate representation in parliament but what if there are women who want to be in combact rather than being in politics? I personally know many of them. Its just if a woman wants to, she should be allowed. And rest physical and other required standards must be kept same for men and women. If a woman has it, she will make it.
The chief is right . We in India are neither mentally/ physically not infrastructure wise ready to enroll women in to combat arm in any rank. I recollect some time back while sitting in a HQ I had detailed a courier party to carry cipher documents, from an ordnance unit. The unit had four lady officers and four male officers including the CO and second in command . The CO in the absence of male officers Available, perforce had to detail s young lady LT as a courier party incharge. This lady officer flatly refused to proceed on courier duty with an excuse that she will have to share a four seater first class compacompartment with the male escort. The CO was in a tight situation did not know what to do . Is it easy to say that disciplinary action should have been initiated against the lady officer for refusing to perform a bonafied duty. Mind you she was not a Jawan who could be dealt with summarily by the CO himself. She was an officer and we all know how difficult and time consuming the proceeding would have been. It is difficult to digest for the people who have served in the combat arms particularly infantry , artillery and armed corps to have women in their units as officer or troops who refuse to obey the orders in the combat aswell as not combat zone .I have also personally interacted with some of the serving lady officers, obviously from services. They expressed their difficulties as a mother while doning the uniform.
I do agree with Gen Menon that the court will force the army to enroll the women in combat arms. The politicians will cash on this issue to influence the voters. We can not compare the three lady fighter pilots of Air Force who are being quoted in social media and their working conditions with the ladies of army leading combat troops in forward areas on the border or in the highaltitude. Let the Army hierarchy, who are quite competent and know the problems of having ladies in combat arms , decide what to do . The decision should not be taken for the sake of political gains or for mere publicity. You will do yeoman service to the Army to allow the Chief take the decision on this delicate issue.
The controversy can be solved by sending women combat team on surgical strike mission. If they succeed then we should have no doubts on their capabilities
बिचार न करके एक बार भर्ती निकाली जाए । अपने-आप ही सब कुछproof ho jaega
There r to many brainless feminist who fail to understand that battle fields are not A/c offices. Are female combat soldiers mentally strong to face physical-sexual abuse (unthinkable extremely worst situation ‘ra#e’) by enemy force like Pakistan. Are we as indian citizens ready to face such incidents? Army is very right on the issue. We shouldn’t poke our fingers in everything.
Why only officers ? Why not in ranks ? No one has answer. Maybe court should come up with an order to recruit them in ranks.
Those need be recommended hysterectomy, that probably will prevent blood and calcium loss, that might help them achieving physical fitness, simultaneously there will no problems associated with maternity leaves. We as India don’t need propagate population instead we need genius, strong and fit individuals.
Women can’t be prevented from recruiting to military, those can be deployed on combat fronts. Martyrs have strengthened the nation. In case there are women martyrs, those will strengthen their genders also. Military seriously need to give them scope among combat fronts with whatever risk there might be.
Preventing women from roles they might serve (those are doing well within other territories), you mark yourself as a dumb and you have not yet achieved service standards as a whole, eventually running yourself into deficits and low standards, within upcoming times you are going be have no scope as a dumb.
I think it may be a good idea to ask the serving lady officers for their views. (It may already have been done).
If they give a honest reply w/o getting emotional they will agree that it may not be the correct time yet to open the doors.
An option is to have women units and use them for static duties in installations.
Combat role, not advisable. There is a zamin aasman ka difference between Army and the IAF and IN.
It has become fashionable to fear the Courts rather than convincing them of practicalities of Indian sociometry. First, let us grill the first batch of legal eagles joining up the Judiciary in 28 Div Sector from Oct to March and one tough judge each from Hon’ble Supreme Court and two high courts to lead the batch of trainees. All will fall in place thereafter. In so doing, formation cdrs must arrest the silly proclivity to make the routine soft and cushioned. The results will flow thereafter. Let us take care of the nation first rather than attempting to lead the comity of nations or trying to become hollow super power.
Bahut mushqil hai, and this is said out of the greatest respect and consideration for women, not in any way a put down.
With due respect to the author, I fail to understand his point. This is a quote from the article:
“Countries that have inducted women in combat roles have not found it easy to assimilate the change and perhaps there is something to gain from their experience although there is a variance in the cultural milieu. In any case, it is a matter of mindset and what better place to change mindsets than the Indian Army.”
On the one hand the author says that the countries have not found it easy to induct women in combat role, then he says “…what better place to change mindset than the Indian Army”.
How is Indian army the best place to change mindsets? Is it some sort of an avant-garde institution, of experimental adventurism? Countries of the West I think have inducted women in combat role and if they “…have not found it easy to assimilate the change”, then what would we be trying to prove by jumping into it?
When we talk of “combat”, we cannot ignore “physical strength”. In 1971 it was said that many of our soldiers had infiltrated as MUKTI BAHINI of Bangladesh. In that type of gorilla operation, hand to hand fight might have often become inevitable. How are we going to negotiate the fact that women have less physical strength than men by God’s design? What if our soldiers are pitted in similar situations in future? Are we going to tell Pakistan or China, please send your women?
This kind of fake bravado reeks of an inferiority complex — mindlessly saying, “yes we can do it”, only out of anxiety that the other fellow may underestimate us if we don’t. There is no need to “change mindsets”. If something is infeasible, we should have the courage to say we won’t do it.
Please don’t think I am trying to be vulgar; I’m only trying to imagine a realistic situation: when the combat is on, and our lady soldier gets her menses, then will she be able to move around briskly, wearing her tampons, carrying all that load on her back, wearing thick cotton pants, crawling on her elbows? Or she’ll be given a few days off? Then who will go and wrestle with the damn enemy? And what if she’s taken prisoner of war? Will she be “treated” according to Geneva Convention? Ha! What are you talking, Sir!
It is to be welcomed that within the high military hierarchy, there are soldiers who think with their heads. It is also important for the preparation and conduct of military operations
Well articulated. Women officers do attempt to prove their mettle and have been accepted as officers in Arms & services less the combat arm. Personally I feel combat requires mental & physical robustness, especially in higher reaches and along LC. I had a lady Engineer Officer sent to open a road, as it got dark & cold I was worried stiff till she got back. Men I found were uncomfortable by her presence. Privacy gets compromised in providing security. Is it acceptable in our society today? I doubt it. Till our society stops gender discrimination, pardah, pallu and chunari, and abolished gender specific schools and colleges it unlikely to change. Why only Army first let’s have adequate representation in Parliament. No one will go to court on that issue but just for publicity target Armed Forces, an easy target for the society. Secondly killing without remorse and without pity is a difficult job. Thirdly, our Regimental system will need complete relook. Fourthly, as a trial raise a mixed BSF Battalion and deploy on LC for two years as a test case. Outcome could be revealing. Fifthly, courts before deciding must see the conditions in a forward post than being in court room to ascertain living conditions. Lastly, it a great idea time for which in Indian context is yet to arrive
Well articulated Sir. But you yourself has said what Gen Menon is alluding ie Courts will force it on us. We are an easy horse to flogg and it makes good discussion – imagine the heady cocktail made by combination of Army and Women Empowerment. So better to start working on How to Induct, we will keep getting the solutions. Regards
Sir, gender discrimination is everywhere. It is not a national issue but a global one. If you talk of eliminating it first and then women to be allowed in army, I am sure my dream of being there will never be accomplished in this life of mine. You talk of adequate representation in parliament but what if there are women who want to be in combact rather than being in politics? I personally know many of them. Its just if a woman wants to, she should be allowed. And rest physical and other required standards must be kept same for men and women. If a woman has it, she will make it.