Rebuilding is a civilisational responsibility Indians owe to their ancestors, who were the only ones among all pre-Bronze Age pagans who managed to protect their way of life.
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It is a brilliant, reasonably priced, and mostly homemade aircraft with a stellar safety record; only two crashes in 24 years since its first flight. But its crash is a moment of introspection.
The true execution of one’s Civilizational Responsibility, while upholding Dharma, in the context of bitter religious contestztion, consists in CONVINCING the other religionidts, not in demolishing their place of worship or provoking their mass extermination. Finding alibis to legitimize such a course is undistinguishing ourselves from the pre-modern Turks and Europeans.
Hindus have forgotten the teachings of Gandhiji. They have forgotten that losing is the true winning. By building the Ram temple, they have completely lost their souls. For what does it profit a group to gain their temple, but lose their souls? Actually they have not gained a temple, they have lost it. By building the temple, they have demolished it. Some of you may think that Gandhi’s teachings are self-contradictory, but that’s because you do not understand the essence of Gandhi’s teachings. The essence is that contradiction is true consistency and absurdity is the true logic and madness is true sanity.
Keep your Gandhigiri to yourself. Read some history. Gandhi was no more a Mahatma than other freedom fighters. You have been successfully brainwashed.
Hey, I am not entirely sure about history like you are. However, I cannot stop myself from noticing that you have asked why were European invasions were not called christian invasions, like Islamic invasions and attributed it to the bias of historians. I think the European invaders were not that theologically driven to be assigned a name like that. European civilization, if we take into account the rise of reason in Greece, was driven by both Reason and Faith. They were the revolutionaries with Industrial Revolution, Scientific revolution, and Capitalism. They created America, the greatest experiment in the terms of democracy, and free speech, with core values of Checks and Balances to take into account for common human nature, and also with 2nd amendment law that was to take care of totalitarian government. They were bigger than a religion, and it can be seen directly in correlation with the flourishment of Western Europe’s rise and decline of religion.
I hope I’m right. Just wanted to contribute some constructive criticism
You are only partially correct. Up to about the French Revolution, Christian fanaticism was common. They launched crusades against Muslims and pillaged. Even afterwards, up to about 1770, even between Christians groups, Catholics and Protestants, bloodletting and pogroms were common over theological disputes. The change came in the Age of Enlightenment, with the great politcal philosophers like Rousseau, Voltaire, Montesquie, Locke, Thomas Paine etc.
And if you remember, Galileo was imprisoned for claiming the earth went round the sun.
On the one hand, you say that “Some discovered the hard way that classical codes of chivalrous honour in battle were outdated against such foes”, and on the other, you say “We must rebuild our temples and viharas as one people. With mutual respect, love and inclusion.” There is a contradiction here. Mutual respect is premised on the word ‘mutual’, which, stripped of its politically correct padding, indicates that I will respect you only to the extent you respect me. Even now, only one side believes in the principle of inclusion – simply because the holy books of Christianity and Islam are premised on exactly the opposite – exclusivity and therefore exclusion. So we return to the same challenge that were faced by our ancestors – who tried to fight adharmic principles with dharmic ones – and lost. For dharma to win and be sustained, it must be made clear to anyone and everyone that it is dharma that is supreme. And countering adharmic forces – with adharmic action if required – is also an essential part of dharma. We must not forget this ever again.
What is adharma for you ? The reign of casteless society – Christianity and Islam.
You are a high caste, your only aim in life is preserve your privileges. You can dress it up in tall talk about dharma, but that is what it boils down to. Keep India under the yoke of caste system.
Islam and Christianity both have sects, and boundaries among these sects are highly rigid and have an ugly history of violence. Shia-Sunni conflict is a typical example. The cast is not the same as Jaati. Varana is changeable, e.g., Vishvamitra becoming brahmin, PushyaMitrs Shung becoming Khstriya, and many more.
Ignorance is the root cause of adharma. Suggest you read the Bhagwad Gita as a start. It could be a first step towards realizing yours, as well as every atom’s cosmic unity and divinity. Meanwhile, us pagans and infidels are quite content in contemplating such ideas, and aren’t really interested in the exclusive members only Pearly Gates Club or the 72 Virgins Jannat Club. Sarve Bhavantu Sukhinah, Sarve Santu Niramayah, Sarve Bhadrani Pashyantu, Ma Kaschit Dukhabhagabhaveta. Om Shantih, Shantih, Shantih.
Very, very well put!
True secularism is about all being equal, not some more equal than others..
All being equal – does that concept exist in Hinduism ?
It is only due to your untouchability that so many converted and so many will convert in future.
Indian secularism is appeasing minorities at the cost of majority,majority divided and fighting each other for the political parties.
This is a good article. However the truth is the entire mankind started from ADAM & EVE. And one true GOD created them. Over the years due to evil in human hearts, God could no longer reveal Himself to people. But people yearned for God from their hearts. But God did not reveal Himself to people. So people made idols & worshiped God & worshiped the nature as God. So at one point entire population of the world became PAGAN. Egyptian, Babylonian, Greek, Indian, Roman civilisations were all pagan.
Once God called Abraham & asked Abraham to follow Him. Even God called Abraham from the pagan family. So started Judaism. Even Israelites have killed Thousands of Pagan people of the land of modern day Palestine (Ancient name Canaan) when they were occupying it, upon the instructions from God Himself. Until Jesus Christ God restricted Himself to the nation of Israel.
Meanwhile outside Israel especially in India people searched God & created Buddhism, Jainism & other religions.
Then Jesus Christ came and Christianity started & spread based on Abrahamic faith.
Then Muhammad came & Islam was born & spread based on Abrahamic faith.
History says mass religious conversions by military conquests first started by Muslims. Then Christians followed the same and we know the result, major part of the world either became Christian or Islamic. India is the only big country that remained pagan to this day. Surprising. Leaving China as China is atheist. Even these kind of violent conversions will continue even in the future.
All this bloodshed in the name of God & pagan practices will end only when the same God who created Adam & Eve will return to this earth in Jesus Christ during His second coming & will rule the entire world for 1000 years from Jerusalem. Then only the entire world will know & understand that Jesus Christ is the true LORD & GOD. Then all will leave their pagan practices including Muslims & will believe in Jesus Christ as LORD & Savior & the present world will end.
Until this Ramjanmabhoomi / Babri masjid, Israel / palestine, (temple / Al Aqsa mosque), Hagia Sophia & many more will continue & people will be killed in the name of religion.
So blessed is the one who believes Jesus Christ & follow in His words.
Jesus died long, long, time ago. He’s not coming back. You are dreaming. WAKE UP!
Your answer and the thought behind that answer are exactly why Abrahamic religions are so violent. Who are you to say idol worship is evil? Why can’t you people just keep praying to your Gods peacefully and let others do their worshipping the way they want?
Fine argument. People you call Hindu may want to worship in other ways. Why do you tell Dalits and those oppressed by caste Hindus that they must remain part of the Hindu fold ?
Become a mulla. Nobody cares. But dont come back crying when nobody in the world want to acccept you. Dalit system is created by intellectual terrorists like you. Tell me in which INdian text have you find the word Dalit. Become a human, not an animal slave.
Oh my god what an absurd suggestion. We are living under debris, let’s destroy our homes and pay for the sarifices made by our forefathers. We cannot correct history, but learn from it not commit same mistake which already happened when Babri masjid was demolished to pave the way for favourable verdict for construction of Ram temple. If we want to emulate Islamic country or Pakistan, what’s is the difference between them and us.
This is between Hindus and Muslims. You are neither. So please stop saying us. There is no us. Maybe the muslims will include you in us, We don’t and won’t.
But there are a lot of Christian institutions both hospitals and colleges… So what’s ur point?
This is the right framework. It was due to being classed ‘pagan’ by Islamists and Christians that Hindu cultural genocide continues. Important that this narrative remains framed as indigenous self determination. Just don’t make the mistake of thinking Hindus are the only or oldest ‘pagan’ culture to have retained cultural continuity or who have reclaimed sacred sites from colonisers. Aboriginal Australians are currently around 60000 years older by standard argument on Vedic origins. Once you have reclaimed the deeper history of ‘pre-Vedic’ Hinduism your claim to cultural continuity will be lengthened. Please do that research and all stop letting Marxists divide those alleged Dravidians from the alleged Aryans. It’s not a correct analysis. They never were dichotomised if they even could be claimed as separate ‘races’ which is itself now disproven by dna.
Public structures, be they temples, masjids, or other buildings of value to the public have multiple aspects to their relevance—be they religious, utilitarian, memorialistic or something else…..
The Ram Janmabhoomi temple, in the past, was a memorial to the child Rama, at his birthplace.
The masjid that Babur built about 500 years ago, was a memorial to his religious conviction (of being a soldier of Islam, whatever that means), and his political might (of having vanquished ‘idolatory’ hiduism, and establishing the ‘true’ version of Islam)
Rama, is worshiped as a ‘deva’ because of his qualities of not averring from what was required of him, in his various roles (as a prince, a student, a son, a brother. a husband, and finally, as a king ). He never for once had a ‘personal agenda’, which might sound very strange to people (either individuals, or cultures) that don’t understand that…he only viewed his physical self, as that performing a role with no personal ambition…..his only ambition, if it can be called that, was to faithfully discharge the duties required of him, in whatever role he was assigned to. Its this nature of his — of being detached from the physical trappings of a role, but discharging all that is required of it at that moment, to the best of one’s abilities — that we Hindus find worthy of worship. And hence, a temple to commemorate his birth.
What does Babur stand for…..of being a person of extreme personal ambition — all he ever wanted was to have a fief of his own, where he could ‘rule’….his journey from Ferghana, as a dispossessed son of a tribal chief, with a band of warrior-bandits in tow, thieving and raiding different mountain communities here in the vicinity just so that ‘his’ people could live better, saw him eventually capturing the fortress of Kabul from a distant relative, and thereon the journey to Hindustan then ruled by the Lodhis from Delhi, and its eventual capture. Nowhere in his entire life, has he ever considered the ‘greater common good’, unless that narrative was convenient for him. Him suddenly becoming a ‘soldier of Islam’, was but a convenient realization of faith for political goals. And for him to gain better currency as a ‘pure muslim’, different from the ‘impure Lodhis’, it was useful to destroy a temple held dear by the ‘idolatory hindus’, and raise a triumphant mosque in its place.
The masjid wasn’t built for the followers of allah…there were already enough masjids around for muslims of that era to pray in…..but the masjid was built to commemorate Babur as a Ghazi.
In today’s times, which of those two men do we find relevant to our times ? A leader like Rama, who lived for his people and did everything , to great personal loss, just so his duties were well discharged. Or a Leader like Babur, who relished the idea of violence where entire communities could be put to sword, cultures ‘vanquished’ and riches appropriated, for nothing but a personal ambition of feeling validated?
Rama, is a clear winner…he is more relevant to the ‘idea of India’, than Babur ever was, and ever can be. Babur, and people like him, are relevant to the ‘idea of pakistan’ — a nation created out of hatred for others, and to prop up the personal ambitions of one person, in the guise of serving the needs of a religion. So, a memorial to Rama, is what we need, not one memorializing Babur, who was never Indian.
Rama beheaded the sudra Shambuga for doing tapas. It is a story that glorifies the Brahmin’s wickedness and subjugation of Indians. Ambedkar condemned it and Periyar burnt it.
A memorial for Rama is needed by the caste Hindus like you to promote your Brahmin hold. Of course you will disguise it as high morality.
You get real babu. Just regurgitating what you’ve read from a random article written by a Marxist historian with a clear topple agenda will get you nowhere. Decolonise! Ta xx
Marxist historians did not write the Ramayana, they did not invent caste system and Hindu mythology
Amish ji has given a just analysis of what is the significance of today’s event and his view of how we should be responsibly handling this deliverance of Justice. Quite a few have also criticized this as Hindu nationalism or something on those lines. Only a practicing Hindu can understand the significance of upholding the Hindu way of life , Philosophy of Humanity and the Universal Conciseness. It was so profound and evolved over several thousands of years that it is almost impossible to live any other way. Can somebody point in History an instance of invasion by Hindus and destruction of religious places. Of course there was hardly any of the Abrahamic religions we have in the past 2000 odd years. In fact within the SUBCONTINENT when Kalinga war happened , the destruction and loss of lives impacted Emperor Ashoka so much that he declared peace as the Rajdharma and cultural influence as the tactics for occupancy . This inadvertently led to stagnation of Military strength and increase in acceptance of Buddhism and over the next 200 years outsiders (outside the influence of ASHOKA s empire) saw their opportunity and invasion after invasion started. All Abrahamic religions evolved to use a combination of Military might and economic oppression with Religion as the fulcrum to extend their territorial hold. Monks also happy, Military also happy, traders also happy . They were united in their mission. Choose which side of the way of life you want to be. The indian subcontinent was never a dessert nor was it akin to the European terrain. We have a great Vasundhara . How can the thinking and culture of the dessert and Europe ever be suitable to our Vasundhara. If you want peace learn to live in harmony with this Vasundhara.
Mullah with the name Rasgolla is spreading the same bigotry his book teaches.
QURAN (98:6) “Surely the unbelievers(IN MUSLIMS) among the people of the Book and the idolaters, will abide in the fire of Hell. THEY ARE THE WORST OF CREATURES .”
I did not mention any religion. I said India in the modern form with central rule from Delhi was a creation of the Mughals and the British. Even the name ‘Hindu’ was given to you by outsiders. You do not have a name to call yourself. So now the author says ‘let us call ourselves pagan, and be proud !
Whichever way you look, you cannot even describe yourself.
Matlab? When he says indian he obviously means hindu. Are you saying the hindu mind is weak? Body ok, one can argue, but mind? You seem to have an inferiority complex.
Yes, the Hindu mind is weak, just like the body !
You cannot distinguish a stone from God.
The chai wallah you worship said in front of a body of Reliance doctors that Ganesha is the proof that Hindus invented plastic surgery. In fact, it is an example of trans-speciation.
Hindus drink cow’s urine and bathe in cow dung slurry.
Even the aboriginals of Papua New Guinea have more intellect.
It is a Hindu trait noted by Khushwant Singh : intelligence combined with unbelievable stupidity ! That is evident in this article praising revival of paganism and Bronze Age as virtues to reclaim.
Hinduism (specifically Vedic culture) as it is practised is all about symbolism. At least in the way it is revealed to the masses. By continually emphasizing symbolism to the masses, the masses remain forever under the yoke of Brahminism.
Idols are not mere stones. It is an object sanctified, what we call praan pratishtha. We give it our reverence because the Absolute that we may call isvara comes to live in it. The Absolute is One, but its manifestations are infinite. That is what we call Brahman (not Brahmin the caste). Classification of animists, idol worshippers etc are made only on the basis of the object of worship. I may have my idol or stone that I worship, and so may you and others. At that level, to each their own. One must not grudge the living truth. Your idea of idols as false objects of worship is erroneous. Not them who worship the idols but you with your distorted sense of Truth is wrong.
Your idea of a formless god is hogwash. A god that supposedly stands outside and waving his magic wand creates the world of forms, and then reveals his message through one Chosen prophet, who moreover communicates to you that the Truth shall be spread by any means because all means are fair for the glory of that God. It is nothing but an excuse for hateful destruction. But let’s examine the metaphysics. You say God is formless, but then assign human qualities of beneficence, mercy, fear etc. He is infinite and all powerful, yet he cannot suffer worship of any other in front of him. Is that a sign of omnipotence or insecuity? And because He is formless, you cultivate hatred for form! How intelligent indeed.
The author takes a perverse pride in Hindus being the last pagans in the world ! He must have had a dip in cow dung slurry to get such inspiration.
Are you actually using pagan and cow dung as pejoratives? I dont get it. Whats your epistemological framework? Please elaborate
You can take pride in female oppressor pervert
All the rapists in India are Hindus. Why ?
You quote Macaulay “And how can man die better, Than facing fearful odds, For the ashes of his fathers, And the temples of his Gods.” I don’t agree with Macaulay. One can most certainly die better. Dying in the emancipation of the suppressed of the day is much superior, to my mind, than dying for the legacy of your forefathers and the Gods you inherited from them. In fact, prioritizing ‘legacy’ of any kind over real injustices of the present day is not only non-optimal, but insofar as it encourages and solidifies man-made differences among humans, also dangerous.
Immature article. To summarize, let’s all ignore the crimes committed, and glorify our pagan ancestors. The writer does a gross disservice by trying to rationalize and justify the horrible atrocities including and following the 1992 demolition. Let’s talk about the recent past, the symbolism and the injustice perpetuated in the name of religion. This isn’t what Ram embodies. He’s just being used as a political tool.
‘Rebuilding is a civilisational responsibility Indians owe to their ancestors, who were the only ones among all pre-Bronze Age pagans who managed to protect their way of life.’
Indeed Hindus are pre-Bronze Age pagans, and they have not developed much since. And the author is very proud of this. Sad ! What kind of people are Hindus ? Who can respect them ?
‘As we rebuild, we must remember to not dishonour our ancients or their way of life. We must act with dharma. ‘
And what is the dharma ? Varnahrama dharma. No doubt a high caste Hindu.
As for this claim that Hindus are special pagans because they are survivors, that is only because Muslims and British had no active policy to convert each and everyone. While they were happy if Hindus converted, Akbar and all the kings were marrying and making alliances with them. Even Aurgangzeb had no conversion policy. If they opposed, he fought and he was severe as he was with anyone who opposed including his relatives. He could have easily decided to convert everyone. It was easy – just eradicate the Brahmins. Instead all Muslim and British employed Brahmins to rule.
In fact, seeing the mess India is in, it would have been better if the country had been fully converted to Islam or Christianity. That would have ended the caste system for good. Currently, India has to be labour with casteism and communalism, primitvism and Bronze Age culture !
Yeh caste kya hota hai bhai? Thoda define karega? Aur yeh islamic countries ka kya haal hai, uske upar bhi thoda apna torch dikhao. Jai Shri Ram!
@rosgolla tere hazrat mohammed ke maa ki chut. I blasphemed islam, what you gonna do?
Rasgolla, enough of your ranting. You seriously need to accept the reality of the SC judgement and move on. Hurling abuses is not helping you.
When you talk of intellectual depth, let me challenge on a few points.
1. Why is it that many of the Western scientists, especially the Quantum Mechanics school, were avid readers of the Vedas and Gita?
2. You talk loads about Varnashrama Dharma, which was a social construct and not a religious one. But then how do you explain apartheid within Abrahamic communities. There was a time when Protestants killed Catholics and vice versa. Shias and Sunnis still like blowing each other up, and on the rare occasions they band together, they do so to blow up other Islamic sects, like Ahmedis.
On the other hand, there is a wealth of evidence that in the olden times, people were allowed to defy the caste system and rise up in society. Valmiki was himself a Nishada. Ved Vyas a Shudra born outside of wedlock. And they are both remembered as Brahmins for their wisdom. Krishna was a cowherd, and yet he was more powerful than any King of yore. You may dismiss these examples as mythology, but what about the Nanda dynasty? The Maurya dynasty? How could Shudras become kings of major dynasties is they were just meant to menial work.
3. Don’t even get into the topic of intelligence. The Hindu works, the Sanskrit language are all considered highly refined. Not just us, but by every Indologist there has ever been. The Europeans were so impressed with the Vedic concepts, that they tried to appropriate them in the name of comparative linguistics and Aryanism. We invented numbers. We were solving complex math centuries before Christ was miraculously dropped from heaven to a virgin mother (imagine!). Astronomy. Surgery (well Ganesha may have been a stretch, but Charaka samhita does mention a precursor to nose lifts and other cosmetic surgeries.
Now let’s examine the Western example. The church maimed Copernicus and threatened Galileo for their scientific ideas. Not until Magellan sailed around the world did they know the earth was a sphere (almost). But for centuries hindus have been calling geography bhu-gol (spherical world) without having ventured outside the peninsula.
And this is classic:
Believers of Abrahamic religions believe that the world came from the divine couple. Then what are we but a bunch of mother-f**kers and sister-f**kers. In short, little more than animals.
4. As for your comment about hindu being a foreign word, you are right. Hindu is an Avestan word (which was a sister language of Sanskrit) referring to the Indus river. The way of life had no name for it defied definition and classification. Each and everything was part of it. The terms Hindu dharma & Turuka Dharma were coined for Indic faiths and Islam in the Vijaynagar in the 10th century.
5. Unlike Abrahamic faiths, which by their own account were busy indulging in incest in the early days, Indic scholars were amassing knowledge. Much of that was lost in the wars and invasions of the past. Consider this, people memorized and propagated the entirety of the Vedas, Puranas, Itihasas, etc orally. Can you imagine their memory and recall ability? So there is no harm in acknowledging that we were a very advanced people in the past but wars and invasions took that away from us.
5. And you say the Islamic invaders and rulers were sugar daddies and did not try to obliterate hindus. This is fairly stupid. Aurangzeb killed his own brother – an Indic minded lover of Sanskrit and the Vedas- to seize the throne. Would he have cared for his father’s relatives by marriage, when he didn’t care for his own father. He wanted power by all means. That’s just one example. Why were the super-influential Zoroastrians wiped out, leaving the few that survived to escape to India? What happened to the pre-Turkic inhabitants of Anatolia. The Romans of the middle-East? The Byzantines of Istanbul?
In your arguments you have chosen to ignore history, science, mythology, and just assert absurdities. Your arguments amount to nothing more than a big zero, which is what your handle represents. Now suck it up nice and long.
Jamadagni, excessive pride in the Vedic past leads to ego. This ego will not allow Hindus to focus on the present and build for the future.
Pretty much every ancient civilization around the world had made good contributions to mathematics, astronomy etc not just the Vedic. Almost all civilizations rose and fell. Hindu civilisation like the Chinese civilisation luckily had a continuum (unlike the Greeks, Egyptians etc.) and they survived till present day. But where are we today as a nation ? Still want to blame ‘invader’ Muslims and Christians for the state we are in?
If the teachings of our scriptures and traditions were so supreme, why is it our country is ranked number 80 in the Global Corruption Index. Why do we have such a low moral fibre? Oh yes, you may like to blame it on invasions! In contrast Christian countries are among the top in this index. Even quite a few Islamic countries are ahead of us in this index.
Jamdagni – much of what you have written shows that you are full of supremacist ideas.
The laws of Quantum Mechanics was not discovered because Westerners read Gita or Vedas. It’s possible few Western scientists and philosophers would have ventured to understand/explore ancient Hindu philosophy and just read the Vedas or Gita out of their own interest. That does not mean they found solutions to the problems of Quantum Mechanics from our scriptures.
Christians had their Renaissance moment, which questioned the excessive control of their religion. This ultimately led to the Scientific and Industrial revolution. The laptop you use, the keyboard on which you post messages to the PRINT, the network that transmits the message to the PRINT server, the electricity on which everything works , the concrete building you stay in , the plumbing which delivers water to your house, the vehicle in which you travel, the phone you use etc. practically all aspects of modern life were created in Christian countries. Do you find Westerners usually bragging about their past in various forums? I see Indians on the other hand embarassingly bragging about their past in various forums on the Internet – Quora, Youtube etc. Modern science and mathematics since the 16th century has moved our knowledge of the Natural and Physical sciences far far ahead from ancient mathematics, astronomy or medicine.
Here in our country we are seeing a Hindu revivalism eulogising ancient ideas and beliefs , mostly being stimulated by the political rise of RSS-BJP. Will our nation ever see a Renaissance moment even in the 21st century? I doubt that will ever happen, because for that to happen we have to let go much of the ideas from the past.
Then all muslims have to convert to Hinduism or be dead. Sabko kaat dalo saalon ko.
It quite literally resets everything- the idea of actual secularism, the debate of Islamic reforms, and collective purging of extremism, intersectional harmony has to be pursued now. But most importantly cleanse our every last bit of “Anglo-Imperialist” idealogues, have a robust discussion, and set the precedent of making narratives from some Washington D.C. cheap pasty white professors to India and its citizens. If where we are headed involves- nature’s sustainability, the liberation of humanity by ensuring justice and dignity, acceptance and empowerment of gender and sexual minorities, acknowledgment of long-forgotten “aboriginals”, spearheading STEM, arts, music and a much deeper insinuation of economic and social equality for an ultimately “the pursuit of happiness” than, by all means, sign me up.
‘Acknowledgment of long-forgotten “aboriginals”, spearheading STEM, arts, music and a much deeper insinuation of economic and social equality for an ultimately “the pursuit of happiness” than, by all means, sign me up.’
You are too naive. The author has mentioned ‘We must act with dharma. ‘
That means Brahmanism and caste system. That is the Hindu pagan way of life. Building new temples over mosques will not end social inequity.
Pursuit of happiness matlab? Christian wala onlyfans? Ya islam wala yezidi khalaas?
Sir I understand the gr8 pains u take to make clear that today’s muslins must not be held responsible for the ghastly crimes of jehaad committed by their ancestors on our Hindu ancestors. Agree. But if these Muslins of today champion (as many if them do) these barbaric invaders as their heroes then they are to be held accountable. This only means that they themselves will emulate these beasts of history if an opportunity presents.
The beast of history is you with your caste system and untouchability. Muslims and Christians liberated Indians.
Muslims and Christians destroyed India.
Muslims and Christians built India. Without them, you would be junglis. Your jungli character is coming to the surface.
Those invaders liberated the sudras from Brahminical tyranny and they converted. The sudras who did not convert will be footsoldiers of Hindutva, and will be sent by Brahmins on trains and burnt. When the temple is built, they will be asked to stand outside.
Liberated my foot. If you are so happy with the invaders ideology you can go and settle in their original land. You will get the royal treatment …….. By the way they also behead people who think beyond what is written.
The caste system was distorted version of Varna. Community biases based on profession does exist everywhere even today. Do not single out one religion.
‘The caste system was distorted version of Varna. Community biases based on profession does exist everywhere even today. Do not single out one religion.’
Caste is the only tenet of Hinduism. You are the beneficary, so you want to strengthen it. The author boasts about his desire for the continuance of paganism. He is also a high born caste. The victims are the sudras. Some converted, others are kept down by force. So the Muslims and Christians are liberators.
“Community biases based on profession does exist everywhere even today.”
Class existed everywhere but not a religious spin based on one’s level in the class hierarchy.
Untouchability is quite unique to India.
The central idea behind the Vedic principle of caste is that not all men are born equal. Some men are dear to God and others aren’t.
Notwithstanding the Islamic teaching about non-believers being infidels, Islam and Christianity clearly believe that all men are equal before God. So there is more unity and brotherhood within their religious systems as compared to Hinduism.
Buddhism went a level higher and denied the existence of God.
aisa hai kya? Aur woh jannat mein kaun log andar jaa sakte hain? Ahmediya bhi nahin? Matlab? Shia.bhi.nahin? Wah! aur yeh ismaili walon ka kya haal.hoga upar? Bahut bhadiya system banake rakha.hai bhai aap log. Tareef karna padega. Jai Shri Ram!
Author is right in not criticizing today’s religious people to an extent. Nobody should criticize people of today for this. However, saying Islamic invaders liberated is stupid, and inaccurate. Islam has enslaved more than liberated. Countries in Middle east are example in today’s time. Women, homosexuals, infidels just for leaving the religion, are core examples of what has Islam worked against.
Sudras founded the Nanda & Maurya dynasties. History not your strongest subject, eh?
As I watch the Bhoomi Puja of Ram Mandir, this is wonderful article. Please ignore those who have a different mind set “Kuch to log kahenge, Logo ka kaam hai kehna”. Having pushed down their “Idea of India” down the throats of the rest, the Anglicised people of this country are unable to fathom “The civilization that is Bharat”.
We know “The civilization that is Bharat” is cover from the Brahmanical caste system and you as a Brahmin will be its beneficiary.
Rasgola is a katua
QURAN (98:6) “Surely the unbelievers(IN MUSLIMS) among the people of the Book and the idolaters, will abide in the fire of Hell. THEY ARE THE WORST OF CREATURES .”
He loves Kafirs cos his pedo Prophet told them to
I am not against the rights of pagans. Just don’t tell me to admire you ! You will remain a community incapable of ruling India.
Tera supremacist mindset janam se hi hai ki sikhaya gaya? Thoda secret reveal karna…
Adivasis and dalits are the original people of India. Everyone else is an invader and destroyer of temples or shrines. What the Ram Temple movement has started will be the model for many more demolitions in the name of correcting history.
Ramayana was written By valimiki who lived in forest and was a hunter
If you claim to be rational, go by DNA evidence which suggests that all Indians have very similar genetic make-up. There is nothing that as distinguish most groups (the North Eeast and Andamans being notable exceptions) into tribes or races. This includes most people in Bangladesh , Pakistan and Sri Lanka as well.
Agreed, Muslims and christians shouldn’t be discriminated because of these past deeds. But what to do when they themselves glorify these horrific incidents, when they chest thumpingly say that they ruled us for a thousand years. Instead of naming and shaming these atrocities, they associate themselves to these glorious events of the barbarians. Secondly, as u said, a miniscule was involved in this loot and plunder, but were majority of the people, supportive or objective of their conquests? No account have I ever seen where any one from the plunderers has objected or denounced it. The thing is so much genuine info is available that propaganda by neo fabricators is useless, unfruitful
‘Instead of naming and shaming these atrocities, they associate themselves to these glorious events of the barbarians. ‘
The majority of them converted to escape from the tyranny of the caste system. Th e Muslims and British brought freedom from Brahmin slavery. Conversion will continue.
Christian convert is talking about how Christianity is supreme
How they killed and burned people alive as they are superior
8 lakh Tutsis killed in Rwandan Genocide of 1994 is just no big deal for them.
All the Christian converts want to remain Christian. No ghar wapsie ! In fact more want to become Christian. And why not ? It would be the best for development of India. With you, there is only scope for Bronze Age primitivism.
Barbarian toh aap hai. Naam bhi babar rakhte hain and kaam bhi barbari karte hain…joke tha bhai, hasna mat
Great article. Fully agree with the points about open discussion on the history. Open but respectful discussion/debate is a key part to a Democracy which is missing.
The fact is History is at the mercy of who writes it, the plea of black Americans is a great example of it. The fact is India was a place of temples, the fact is also that our ancestors are known to be most tolerant people. It depends on us which ‘way of life’ we want to bring back!
Phir wohi. Caste ka koi definition dena, we’ll talk after that, ashrafi kahin ke
Look in Gita for definition of caste. Know your religion.
The typical pacifying lullaby- all are eternal species – if we boast about us as eternal – what about other cultures who invented all the vaccines science and healthcare – which indirectly helping us to be 1.3 billion population. Some points are good – but mostly pacifies the existential nausea and advise on building of more such temples – it is too kiddish. But inspires many people in India and many political parties. What we were in the past – I don’t care, like many ancient cultures ours is also one unique culture. But we are able to make politics and bring emotional hysteria on the basis of building temples – that is the present and that decides the future too.
Is India not contributing to health care to the world? We are the worlds factory for pharma. We are developing our own vaccines as well. Dont divert from TOPIC and comment only on the relevant points raised.
The chai wallah told you India is vishwa guru. So why is India heading for topper’s position in Covid ?
worlds factory for pharma – 70% of ingredients come from China.
You can be worlds factory only for cow’s urine, gobar and Covid Papad.
Amish Tripathi should be commended and congratulated for writing this bold article, highlighting the agressiveness of Abrahamic Religions. The Print should also be thanked and congratulated for publishing an article whose views it, evidently, does not subscribe to. Good evidence of freedom of speech and expression.
Oh, you forgot the aggressiveness of Brahmanism ? You must be its beneficiary, why would you notice.
You mean like vishwanathan anand, real.aggro brahman. Wah! Just like the guys who pulled out maharaj sambhajis eyes. Ek hi kism.ke.log hai. Go read some foucault.
Ayodhya’s RAM temple is the first real COLONIZATION of Hinduism by political power says an intellectual in today’s Indian Express.
Free speech
Convenient about wiping out of Buddhist era by blaming 1200 AD Khilji invasion when Buddhism was pretty much wiped out decades ago. No wonder though as we are live in a world of alternate history which seldom cares about historical evidances.
Please check the geography were Buddhism was most prevalent (Afghanistan, Kashmir). What is the population in those areas today? That should give you some clue. Buddhist believed in extreme Ahimsa and did not have a Kshatriya brigade. No way to resist invasion.
Though the event seemed like religio-political triumphalism, in the end it was actually a triumph of Brahminism.
Even with their backs to the wall due to the ascendancy of rational Buddhism, Brahminism resurged and wiped out the Buddhists 2000 years ago.
Brahminism is on the rise in India again. How this nation evolves in the next decade will be interesting for sure.
The author claims Buddhism came to an end in India due to Islam, but in fact it was the Brahmin revival led by the Kerala Brahmin Shankara and Kumarila that killed Buddhism. The Brahmins boast that Shankara saved them and India. From what ? Not the Muslims, they had not arrived. Shankara saved Brahmanism from Buddhism.
Brahamnism is on the rise in India. But it is not sustainable as their notions of caste hierarchy will be challenged.
Arre yaar, golden age of hinduism toh gupta empire tha! Uske immediate baad hinduism ko bachana pada tha kya? Zara macaulay ke gaand se sir bahar nikal.
Macaulay civilised India with a uniform civil code. He wrote that India has suffered too long under the Brahmin code where there is no punishment for the Brahmin and severe punishment to the sudra for a minor crime.
Correction : Macaulay civilised India with a uniform PENAL code.
CURIOUS ONE.which Christian Church was built with the ruble of the temple.in our pagan subcontinent..can be made a museum
The author does not utter a single word about how foreigners have been able to conquer India for centuries – “caste” based divisions sowed by the brahmanical order. China does not have any castes, and it has been able to withstand foreign control for most of its hesitance.
Do you read? Go read Chinese history. Ignorance breeds stupidity stupidity leads to self confidence in fools. That leads to writing such comments leading to shame in public forum
The author is in favour of the brahmanical order – he writes about governance according to dharma.
China withstand foreign invasion?
Before jumping into wrong conclusions go and read.
Is Chengiz Khan Turkish?
The invasions were definitely Islamic., not Turkish.
Actually he could be partially . It is believed his mother was from a turkic tribe. The Mongol and turkic tribes predominantly mingled in the central Asian region and spread westward after Ghenghis United them under his empire.
Chengiz Khan was a mongol and not Muslim. The Mongols followed the Shamanic religion.
I agree with you…..Amish has been a bit hasty in ignoring the Arab Islamic, and the Mongol quasi-Islamic invasions of India, concentrating on invasions from the late Delhi Sultanate period (which were predominantly Turkic Islamic in nature)
Interesting how we as humans love to hold onto the old. So if our ancestors were living in caves and had a certain cultural life, do we hold onto that too.
And thousand years later, how will our descendants look at us? That we still led a life and tradition of an old society or developed new systems and traditions which were much more culturally in tune with the times.
History means nothing if we do not create our own history which is morally and systemically human and rational.
When I first saw the temples of South India – old, intricately carved, majestic – I remember feeling a sense of loss for such structures in North, where I was born. I wonder whether this sense of loss isjustified? I was a child in 80s but all I remember are deities such as Shitala Devi and Hanuman ji. Around late 80s, the Hindu Gods’ temple started to come up. I don’t even know whether my forefathers would have been allowed in those temples. Truth is I feel sense of loss and deeply aware of inequalities due to caste/varna system. I wish the temples were still there but building new structures will neither make the feeling of loss go away nor will help in making the society equitable. No, we don’t owe anything to our ancestors, but we owe a lot to the future generations. And that is the sobering thought.
Those porno temples in Khajurao were left for you, take your family there. The Chandella kings were busy with them, they did not see the Muslims coming, like Modi did not see the Chinese coming.
Muslims coming matlab? Aapke ancestors toh hindu hi the. They saw the muslims coming? Stockholm syndrome ka had paar kar diya be tum
Both Abraham religions were brutal. Crusader’s killed millions of Jews and Muslims. Turk muslims killed millions of Armenians. Some one said prefer iit and iim those are converted souls. We need both history and iit. Italy and Greece half of their GDP is thru tourism. Luckily south India kept the Hinduism alive.
South India will separate due to Hindi imposition. All this paganism cannot unite.
8000 years bro. Out of your league. We have a special paganism going, not your arab variety
“We must understand that Indian Muslims and Christians of today have nothing to do with what the pre-modern Europeans, Turks, and other foreign invaders did.”
Above line by author clearly depicts what is wrong with the society today and how it is divided between “we” and “them”. “We” here are regimented Hindus and their right wing leaders who have conveniently assumed that this country belongs to “we” and that “we” can unilaterally take decisions to suit themselves, whereas the rest others are “they”.
As far as the Indian history is concerned, Turkic rules have the biggest stake in Indian documented and verified history. So by the logic of the author, now Muslims should have the civilisational responsibility to build the Masjid back.
Anyways, good time pass gimmick by author to sell some more books. I found the article entertaining but spiritless.
India is not Arabia, everything is in process. Now we have reclaimed our land back. The land of India belongs to local son and not to those who follow Arabi culture
The local son remains a primitive pagan and a misfit in the world according to the author !
The author uses Pagan only to differentiate the Abrahamic religions from the rest. The Vedas and the Upanishads are primitive ? People who developed the sanskrit language are primitive ?
The author says pagan and Bronze Age. He does not want to come out of that age.
People who developed the caste system and denied knowledge and promoted dank superstition are primitive.
Best article…. I ever read on the print…. ???
Thank you Amish
Imperialism, dictatorship, democracy, federalism etc are different forms of the same phenomenon as society evolved. Invasions, holocaust, ethnic cleansing etc are the ways how they existed till their rejection. This will continue to happen always. The people and the times will judge them and the world goes on. Pagans, Abrahamic, atheists etc are but names of different people’s thought processes in those times. They will always be replaced by others in time. We as humans need something to lean on for our ignorance. Thats how it works.
I am not sure if Ram Temple would not be destroyed by Muslims again as it’s a matter of time they increase their population and this time use democracy to establish Islamic rule in India. Hindus were defeated by Muslims in the past and it may happen again during next 100 to 200 years. Modi type leaders are rare and anything can happen in future.
Dear Aamish Tripathi
I believe Vaidik Hinduism did not worship idols, did not have temples. (Aarya Samaj follows Vaidik Hinduism). The Vaidik Hinduism absorbed those Pagan practices from local/ tribal religions to create the Sanatan Dharma now called Hinduism. Is this belief right?
I have also believed that a Khilji destroyed Nalanda. Here is a very different view by historian DN Jha. The extract below from his article may be shocking to many of us.
Quote: But the ultimate destruction of the Nalanda Mahavihara was, as I described in a 2006 address to the Indian History Congress, caused by Hindu fanatics who set fire to its library. The popular view, however, wrongly attributes this conflagration to the Mamluk commander Bakhtiyar Khilji, who never went there, but, in fact, sacked the nearby Odantapuri Mahavihara at modern-day Bihar Sharif. Bakhtiyar is also believed to have destroyed the Vikramashila Mahavihara—a centre of Vajrayana located at modern Antichak, near Bhagalpur in Jharkhand, and founded in the eighth century by the Pala ruler Dharmapala. But this, too, is not borne out by evidence, which seems to attribute the destruction to a conflagration and an attack probably by the Sena rulers of Bengal, who were inimical to Buddhism. Like them, the eleventh-century Kalachuri king Karna, who was also hostile to Buddhism, had earlier destroyed many Buddhist temples and monasteries in Magadha. In this region, according to the seventeenth-century Tibetan scholar Taranatha, 84 temples were destroyed, including at Nalanda. Unquote
Destruction of Buddhist temples by Hindu kings is mentioned by many Chinese travellers of that era, it might be the bitter truth, at least partially. Only honest history scholars can judge. Indian school textbooks rightly focus on positive part of our history for the young minds, downplaying the atrocities (often controversial) which are best dealt at university level. We should learn from history, not live in history which is more complex than what we believe.
See below a few more extracts from the same article of Jha.
Quote: Central to their perception is the belief that Muslim rulers indiscriminately demolished Hindu temples and broke Hindu idols. They relentlessly propagate the canard that 60,000 Hindu temples were demolished during Muslim rule, though there is hardly any credible evidence for the destruction of more than 80 of them. On the other hand, even a cursory survey of historical evidence shows that the demolition and desecration of rival religious establishments, and the appropriation of their idols, was not uncommon in India before the advent of Islam…..
The Chinese Buddhist pilgrim and traveller Hsüan Tsang, who visited India between the years 631 and 645, during the reign of Harshavardhana, states that the sixth-century Huna ruler Mihirakula, a devotee of Shiva, destroyed 1,600 Buddhist stupas and monasteries and killed thousands of Buddhist monks and laity. He further tells us that 1,000 sangharamas in Gandhara were “deserted” and in “ruins,” and describes 1,400 sangharamas in Uddiyana as “generally waste and desolate.” ….
In some parts of the country, as in Kashmir, the rulers ordered the demolition of temples and Buddhist establishments, both as personal vendetta and a matter of policy. Kalhana (author of Rajatarangini, a history of Kashmir in Sanskrit) makes an interesting reference to the king Nara, who, angered by a Buddhist monk who seduced his wife, “burned thousands of viharas” in revenge. He also speaks of the tenth-century king Kshemagupta, who destroyed the Buddhist monastery of Jayendravihara at Srinagar and used its materials for the construction of the Kshemagaurishvara temple.
Unquote
Source: https://caravanmagazine.in/reviews-and-essays/dn-jha-destruction-buddhist-sites
Lastly, was demolition of Babri mosque justified? Was it legal or illegal? Was it not possible to build a temple without carrying out the act?
The article is baseless, it is quoting a third source based on a write up of 1800s, after 600 yrs of that incident. And in that source it never talks about somebody destroying it. You think a whole library spread out over vast acres of land will get destroyed by one man. The logic is itself poor. On the other hand bakhtiar crime is documented in Persian sources written some yrs after the incident.
The structure was a controversial one build in 16th century after destruction of a temple and has been rightfully removed to pave way for the construction of shrine whose place it belong to.
This guy Ramder is a converted Christian and anti Hindu , just watch his YouTube videos , he claims , Aurangzeb destroyed Kashi Vishwanath temple because Hindu priests raped a princes in Vishwanath temple !!! Hindus can decide what to do with Reamder and his family for such false propaganda .
Aurangzeb destroyed Kashi Vishwanath temple because Hindu priests raped a princes in Vishwanath temple
That is entirely credible. Look at the Assaram. Look at the Katua rape of a 8 year old by a priest in a temple in Kashmir, So why is the above not possible ? Hindu priests are capable of that even today.
Ab main mauna vrat loonga. Jhoot ka had paar kar diya rosogolla ne. Itne sweet ho, itne achche achche words use karke hate phailate ho. Wah! Tareedon se nahin, yeh manne wala. Adios bro.
Don’t use pagan language in front of me.
Rasgulla, get a life, You’re overlords in Pakistan will be speaking Mandarin in 10 years. You’ll be working in a lo mein restaurant instead of whatever rubbish you’re doing now. Jai Shree Ram
Hindus will be ceding land to Mandarin speakers quietly while revelling in their paganism fest in
Ayodhya ! You are incapable of defending India.
Reddy- I am not Ramder. Read again. I am Ramdar , abbreviation of Ram Darxxxx, a proud & liberal Hindu. I have never made or uploaded any You-tube video. I have quoted from article of a Historian named Jha, a Hindu. Anyway, you proved your fanatic, intolerant mind. Wish you had posted a link to the Youtube video that you are writing about.
Mr Shekhar Gupta – How do you allow such threatening messages?
I appreciate the writers concluding views, namely, ” We must speak the truth….without engendering hatred. We must act , but with calm collective resolve, not with insecure aggression. We must understand the Indian Muslims and Christians
of today have nothing to do with what the pre-modern European, Turks, and other foreign invaders did.”
Whitewashing your hatred and violence won’t take you far, nor trying to elevate the pygmies to the level of great kings as yo udo in your propaganda books.
Take a chill pill, for the destruction of Babri or the daily subjugation and vilification of minorities is going to haunt you for centuries to come and then some new amish will rehash some B. S. to gain sympathy.
Your pagan crimes against humanity, against people of your own ilk, what to talk of others and still continuing is reaching its shelf life.
Talk about your Arabic crime you barbarian Bedouin follower. You people are not even local sons but Arabi stooges. Great kings?? We are living today, and the land has been reclaimed by Dharmics back.
You are living today, but Hindu mind has not developed past paganism and Bronze Age according to the author !
Playing victim after committing the ghastliest of mass crimes on the Khafir is an established 1400 yr old habit.
U people Trojaned into the INC in 1927 and pretended as if U are our friends in the task of ejecting the British from our lands. Once were sure that the white Christian khafir was leaving, U took out ur hidden knife against the trusting and unwary ally Hindu khafir and extorted Pak thru murderous mass riots. And then u did not leave out lands even after this grand treachery. And now U align and pretend to be eternal friends with khafir pseudosecular parties like Cong, CPM.DMK, SP, BSP, TMC and train ur guns from their shoulders on Hindus . And once U succeed in finishing off Hindus, U would remove ur hidden knife and stab ur unsuspecting pseudosecular allies in the same manner u did to the INC and Gandhi in 47.
‘stab ur unsuspecting pseudosecular allies in the same manner u did to the INC and Gandhi in 47.’
Gandhi was shot by one of your RSS Hindus.
Playing victim is a 1400 yr old habit.
They have a perverse pride as pagan survivalists ! Hindutva has nothing else to show.
No one invited you to take a dump. This is sacred pagan space – get out you white supremacist rasagolla hah!
Sacred pagan dump of slumdogs, holy cows and their dung. You are the largest body of primitives on earth.
Brilliant article. Can The Print invite such authors to write rather than its brood of self certified “talented young reporters”? Can the editor see the difference in this article and the ones written by Shivam Vij, DK Mandal, Zainab Sikandar, Bismee Taksim etc?
Our forefathers indeed faced massive persecution and suffered immense oppression…..and in my opinion they have been justly rewarded in today’s time and age in terms of earning the freedom to build as many temples,mosques,churches as we like without facing any hurdle or persecution…..we are free to go to our temples and mosques unlike earlier times……this is what we have earned….Why are we obsessed with the idea of rebuilding civilization via destruction of present day structures……what good will that do? Why are we refusing to read between the lines and admitting to the fact that we are repeating henious history exactly the same way as the barbaric regimes did!
i differ on several ideas with the writer but would first like to draw attention to 2 points. 1: should historical justice be granted to the “nagas” as well for burning down their forest by the aryans as is cited in the “Mahabharata”? 2: it is not the rajput and maratha “Kings” who saved the culture but the well segmented caste system. the ever itinerant Brahman being the most adept at salvaging his lot and the shrewd vaishya in protecting his interests. the kings mentioned here are a frivolously glorified category that more than cultural integrity are reflective of the European obsession with “nation and nationality of the british raj era.
If the Brahman and the Vaishya had only cared about “salvaging their lot”, Hindu culture would have died long back. If it has survived for so long and against such odds and continues to flourish today, it is simply because every single constituent caste was unwavering in its commitment to the sanatana dharma. Some may have converted, that too mostly under distress with the sword hanging over their heads, but an overwhelming majority did not. No matter what history threw at them, and history has been pretty unforgiving to them, their belief and faith remained intact.
Of course, all of this will no doubt hurts and pains the liberal/secular cabal. For them, wholesale conversions to Islam and Christianity is proof of India’s secularism. The moment it stops or even slows down, India no longer remains “secular”.
First define who are nagvanshi, they are part of Hindu faith in many groups from Rajputs , Jats, to others etc. So, you are incorrect on facts
‘Amiss’ it is not surprising you said all this considering your books and the evolving popularity of ‘Hinduism and nothing else in India’ who might read your books where you deify Gods and make them ‘cool’ and ‘modern’ with a good dash of creativity. But it is still not completely proven that the items under the masjid were definitely from a temple. Would it be ok for people right now to raze a temple just because there could have been a mosque underneath it? Great to say let’s move on cause there are 1.3 billion people behind it and united. I guess from UK you must be seeing clearly now!
Whatever may be the structure under Babari but was surely it was not the structure of a Masjid. Muslims have no claim whatsoever. Their problems are only political.
The wrongs that were done to Buddhists and Hindus, not just in India but also in Afghanistan, Central Asia and other places, must be acknowledged. The brutal reign of terror unleashed by the invading Islamic forces on the Buddhist and Hindu cultures of these lands are a fact of history. No matter what you do or say will you be able to erase this.
The destruction, pillage and wholesale massacres accompanying Islamic conquests of these lands must be acknowledged. In most places the original culture and heritage was destroyed completely. Its just in India and a few other places that it managed to survive the Abrahamic onslaught.
That is fake news. Read the Supreme Court Judgement and all the various arguments in there.
Other comments may be valid, but this one is not.
‘But it is still not completely proven that the items under the masjid were definitely from a temple. ‘
That is correct, there is no published and indisputable scientific evidence. The court has given a verdict that the mob wants. The VHP and similar Hindu groups circulate photos claiming a temple and Hindus want to believe and it becomes a fact for them. It is Third World mentality and India cannot come out of it.
Meaning no disrespect, but neither enterprise gets my vote. I would rather we build more IITs, IIMs, AIIMSes. Our public hospitals are still not good enough for people of consequence.
IITs, IIMs, AIIMSes could produce only slave minds. Scientists, Engineers and doctors produced by these institutions are made of borrowed knowledge. Time has come now for India to create original thinkers and build India to lead i.e. not to follow like now. There are many areas where India can lead.
Keep fantasizing and dreaming!
Only rational thinking and scientific mindset can generate new knowledge and discoveries. Not clinging on to 2000-3000 year old beliefs.
Go ahead and build it on places of Abrahamic religious structure. I am with you
A cliche argument, devoid of sense. Building temples and educational institutions aren’t exclusive to each other. One is to enrich the soul and the other for the mind. India has enough resources to build both.
Classic intellectual fudgery. It is a sacred spot (by belief) which cannot be shifted. Any secular institution can be shifted and even multiplied… Would you prefer 10 IITs at ten different locations in India or 1 at this sacred spot? If it’s the latter, it will be a testimony to your fear of taking bold intellectual decisions.
Any bold decision will antagonize somebody. You need guts to accept the decision and not hide behind so-called secular safe words
Well said – how many votes will be cast for those institutes.
There are 1000s of churches and mosques are being build all over india every year. why dont you ask them to build the mentioned things instead. ohh but then we will be called communal. it is easy to attach hindus and looks cool.
Awesome take and very eloquently put!
I request the print to publish more and more of such articles.
The true execution of one’s Civilizational Responsibility, while upholding Dharma, in the context of bitter religious contestztion, consists in CONVINCING the other religionidts, not in demolishing their place of worship or provoking their mass extermination. Finding alibis to legitimize such a course is undistinguishing ourselves from the pre-modern Turks and Europeans.
Hindus have forgotten the teachings of Gandhiji. They have forgotten that losing is the true winning. By building the Ram temple, they have completely lost their souls. For what does it profit a group to gain their temple, but lose their souls? Actually they have not gained a temple, they have lost it. By building the temple, they have demolished it. Some of you may think that Gandhi’s teachings are self-contradictory, but that’s because you do not understand the essence of Gandhi’s teachings. The essence is that contradiction is true consistency and absurdity is the true logic and madness is true sanity.
Keep your Gandhigiri to yourself. Read some history. Gandhi was no more a Mahatma than other freedom fighters. You have been successfully brainwashed.
Hey, I am not entirely sure about history like you are. However, I cannot stop myself from noticing that you have asked why were European invasions were not called christian invasions, like Islamic invasions and attributed it to the bias of historians. I think the European invaders were not that theologically driven to be assigned a name like that. European civilization, if we take into account the rise of reason in Greece, was driven by both Reason and Faith. They were the revolutionaries with Industrial Revolution, Scientific revolution, and Capitalism. They created America, the greatest experiment in the terms of democracy, and free speech, with core values of Checks and Balances to take into account for common human nature, and also with 2nd amendment law that was to take care of totalitarian government. They were bigger than a religion, and it can be seen directly in correlation with the flourishment of Western Europe’s rise and decline of religion.
I hope I’m right. Just wanted to contribute some constructive criticism
You are only partially correct. Up to about the French Revolution, Christian fanaticism was common. They launched crusades against Muslims and pillaged. Even afterwards, up to about 1770, even between Christians groups, Catholics and Protestants, bloodletting and pogroms were common over theological disputes. The change came in the Age of Enlightenment, with the great politcal philosophers like Rousseau, Voltaire, Montesquie, Locke, Thomas Paine etc.
And if you remember, Galileo was imprisoned for claiming the earth went round the sun.
On the one hand, you say that “Some discovered the hard way that classical codes of chivalrous honour in battle were outdated against such foes”, and on the other, you say “We must rebuild our temples and viharas as one people. With mutual respect, love and inclusion.” There is a contradiction here. Mutual respect is premised on the word ‘mutual’, which, stripped of its politically correct padding, indicates that I will respect you only to the extent you respect me. Even now, only one side believes in the principle of inclusion – simply because the holy books of Christianity and Islam are premised on exactly the opposite – exclusivity and therefore exclusion. So we return to the same challenge that were faced by our ancestors – who tried to fight adharmic principles with dharmic ones – and lost. For dharma to win and be sustained, it must be made clear to anyone and everyone that it is dharma that is supreme. And countering adharmic forces – with adharmic action if required – is also an essential part of dharma. We must not forget this ever again.
What is the dharma ? The caste system ?
What is adharma for you ? The reign of casteless society – Christianity and Islam.
You are a high caste, your only aim in life is preserve your privileges. You can dress it up in tall talk about dharma, but that is what it boils down to. Keep India under the yoke of caste system.
Islam and Christianity both have sects, and boundaries among these sects are highly rigid and have an ugly history of violence. Shia-Sunni conflict is a typical example. The cast is not the same as Jaati. Varana is changeable, e.g., Vishvamitra becoming brahmin, PushyaMitrs Shung becoming Khstriya, and many more.
Ignorance is the root cause of adharma. Suggest you read the Bhagwad Gita as a start. It could be a first step towards realizing yours, as well as every atom’s cosmic unity and divinity. Meanwhile, us pagans and infidels are quite content in contemplating such ideas, and aren’t really interested in the exclusive members only Pearly Gates Club or the 72 Virgins Jannat Club. Sarve Bhavantu Sukhinah, Sarve Santu Niramayah, Sarve Bhadrani Pashyantu, Ma Kaschit Dukhabhagabhaveta. Om Shantih, Shantih, Shantih.
Very, very well put!
True secularism is about all being equal, not some more equal than others..
All being equal – does that concept exist in Hinduism ?
It is only due to your untouchability that so many converted and so many will convert in future.
Indian secularism is appeasing minorities at the cost of majority,majority divided and fighting each other for the political parties.
This is a good article. However the truth is the entire mankind started from ADAM & EVE. And one true GOD created them. Over the years due to evil in human hearts, God could no longer reveal Himself to people. But people yearned for God from their hearts. But God did not reveal Himself to people. So people made idols & worshiped God & worshiped the nature as God. So at one point entire population of the world became PAGAN. Egyptian, Babylonian, Greek, Indian, Roman civilisations were all pagan.
Once God called Abraham & asked Abraham to follow Him. Even God called Abraham from the pagan family. So started Judaism. Even Israelites have killed Thousands of Pagan people of the land of modern day Palestine (Ancient name Canaan) when they were occupying it, upon the instructions from God Himself. Until Jesus Christ God restricted Himself to the nation of Israel.
Meanwhile outside Israel especially in India people searched God & created Buddhism, Jainism & other religions.
Then Jesus Christ came and Christianity started & spread based on Abrahamic faith.
Then Muhammad came & Islam was born & spread based on Abrahamic faith.
History says mass religious conversions by military conquests first started by Muslims. Then Christians followed the same and we know the result, major part of the world either became Christian or Islamic. India is the only big country that remained pagan to this day. Surprising. Leaving China as China is atheist. Even these kind of violent conversions will continue even in the future.
All this bloodshed in the name of God & pagan practices will end only when the same God who created Adam & Eve will return to this earth in Jesus Christ during His second coming & will rule the entire world for 1000 years from Jerusalem. Then only the entire world will know & understand that Jesus Christ is the true LORD & GOD. Then all will leave their pagan practices including Muslims & will believe in Jesus Christ as LORD & Savior & the present world will end.
Until this Ramjanmabhoomi / Babri masjid, Israel / palestine, (temple / Al Aqsa mosque), Hagia Sophia & many more will continue & people will be killed in the name of religion.
So blessed is the one who believes Jesus Christ & follow in His words.
Jesus died long, long, time ago. He’s not coming back. You are dreaming. WAKE UP!
Your answer and the thought behind that answer are exactly why Abrahamic religions are so violent. Who are you to say idol worship is evil? Why can’t you people just keep praying to your Gods peacefully and let others do their worshipping the way they want?
Fine argument. People you call Hindu may want to worship in other ways. Why do you tell Dalits and those oppressed by caste Hindus that they must remain part of the Hindu fold ?
Become a mulla. Nobody cares. But dont come back crying when nobody in the world want to acccept you. Dalit system is created by intellectual terrorists like you. Tell me in which INdian text have you find the word Dalit. Become a human, not an animal slave.
gobar politics
Oh my god what an absurd suggestion. We are living under debris, let’s destroy our homes and pay for the sarifices made by our forefathers. We cannot correct history, but learn from it not commit same mistake which already happened when Babri masjid was demolished to pave the way for favourable verdict for construction of Ram temple. If we want to emulate Islamic country or Pakistan, what’s is the difference between them and us.
This is between Hindus and Muslims. You are neither. So please stop saying us. There is no us. Maybe the muslims will include you in us, We don’t and won’t.
But there are a lot of Christian institutions both hospitals and colleges… So what’s ur point?
This is the right framework. It was due to being classed ‘pagan’ by Islamists and Christians that Hindu cultural genocide continues. Important that this narrative remains framed as indigenous self determination. Just don’t make the mistake of thinking Hindus are the only or oldest ‘pagan’ culture to have retained cultural continuity or who have reclaimed sacred sites from colonisers. Aboriginal Australians are currently around 60000 years older by standard argument on Vedic origins. Once you have reclaimed the deeper history of ‘pre-Vedic’ Hinduism your claim to cultural continuity will be lengthened. Please do that research and all stop letting Marxists divide those alleged Dravidians from the alleged Aryans. It’s not a correct analysis. They never were dichotomised if they even could be claimed as separate ‘races’ which is itself now disproven by dna.
Public structures, be they temples, masjids, or other buildings of value to the public have multiple aspects to their relevance—be they religious, utilitarian, memorialistic or something else…..
The Ram Janmabhoomi temple, in the past, was a memorial to the child Rama, at his birthplace.
The masjid that Babur built about 500 years ago, was a memorial to his religious conviction (of being a soldier of Islam, whatever that means), and his political might (of having vanquished ‘idolatory’ hiduism, and establishing the ‘true’ version of Islam)
Rama, is worshiped as a ‘deva’ because of his qualities of not averring from what was required of him, in his various roles (as a prince, a student, a son, a brother. a husband, and finally, as a king ). He never for once had a ‘personal agenda’, which might sound very strange to people (either individuals, or cultures) that don’t understand that…he only viewed his physical self, as that performing a role with no personal ambition…..his only ambition, if it can be called that, was to faithfully discharge the duties required of him, in whatever role he was assigned to. Its this nature of his — of being detached from the physical trappings of a role, but discharging all that is required of it at that moment, to the best of one’s abilities — that we Hindus find worthy of worship. And hence, a temple to commemorate his birth.
What does Babur stand for…..of being a person of extreme personal ambition — all he ever wanted was to have a fief of his own, where he could ‘rule’….his journey from Ferghana, as a dispossessed son of a tribal chief, with a band of warrior-bandits in tow, thieving and raiding different mountain communities here in the vicinity just so that ‘his’ people could live better, saw him eventually capturing the fortress of Kabul from a distant relative, and thereon the journey to Hindustan then ruled by the Lodhis from Delhi, and its eventual capture. Nowhere in his entire life, has he ever considered the ‘greater common good’, unless that narrative was convenient for him. Him suddenly becoming a ‘soldier of Islam’, was but a convenient realization of faith for political goals. And for him to gain better currency as a ‘pure muslim’, different from the ‘impure Lodhis’, it was useful to destroy a temple held dear by the ‘idolatory hindus’, and raise a triumphant mosque in its place.
The masjid wasn’t built for the followers of allah…there were already enough masjids around for muslims of that era to pray in…..but the masjid was built to commemorate Babur as a Ghazi.
In today’s times, which of those two men do we find relevant to our times ? A leader like Rama, who lived for his people and did everything , to great personal loss, just so his duties were well discharged. Or a Leader like Babur, who relished the idea of violence where entire communities could be put to sword, cultures ‘vanquished’ and riches appropriated, for nothing but a personal ambition of feeling validated?
Rama, is a clear winner…he is more relevant to the ‘idea of India’, than Babur ever was, and ever can be. Babur, and people like him, are relevant to the ‘idea of pakistan’ — a nation created out of hatred for others, and to prop up the personal ambitions of one person, in the guise of serving the needs of a religion. So, a memorial to Rama, is what we need, not one memorializing Babur, who was never Indian.
Rama was a mythological character. Get real.
Rama beheaded the sudra Shambuga for doing tapas. It is a story that glorifies the Brahmin’s wickedness and subjugation of Indians. Ambedkar condemned it and Periyar burnt it.
A memorial for Rama is needed by the caste Hindus like you to promote your Brahmin hold. Of course you will disguise it as high morality.
You get real babu. Just regurgitating what you’ve read from a random article written by a Marxist historian with a clear topple agenda will get you nowhere. Decolonise! Ta xx
Marxist historians did not write the Ramayana, they did not invent caste system and Hindu mythology
Amish ji has given a just analysis of what is the significance of today’s event and his view of how we should be responsibly handling this deliverance of Justice. Quite a few have also criticized this as Hindu nationalism or something on those lines. Only a practicing Hindu can understand the significance of upholding the Hindu way of life , Philosophy of Humanity and the Universal Conciseness. It was so profound and evolved over several thousands of years that it is almost impossible to live any other way. Can somebody point in History an instance of invasion by Hindus and destruction of religious places. Of course there was hardly any of the Abrahamic religions we have in the past 2000 odd years. In fact within the SUBCONTINENT when Kalinga war happened , the destruction and loss of lives impacted Emperor Ashoka so much that he declared peace as the Rajdharma and cultural influence as the tactics for occupancy . This inadvertently led to stagnation of Military strength and increase in acceptance of Buddhism and over the next 200 years outsiders (outside the influence of ASHOKA s empire) saw their opportunity and invasion after invasion started. All Abrahamic religions evolved to use a combination of Military might and economic oppression with Religion as the fulcrum to extend their territorial hold. Monks also happy, Military also happy, traders also happy . They were united in their mission. Choose which side of the way of life you want to be. The indian subcontinent was never a dessert nor was it akin to the European terrain. We have a great Vasundhara . How can the thinking and culture of the dessert and Europe ever be suitable to our Vasundhara. If you want peace learn to live in harmony with this Vasundhara.
Indian ancestors died for Ram mandir ?
There were no Indians in the modern sense with central rule from Delhi. That was a creation of the Mughals and the British.
This melodrama about Indians dying for Rama temple is fanciful and shows the weakness of the Hindu mind.
Mullah with the name Rasgolla is spreading the same bigotry his book teaches.
QURAN (98:6) “Surely the unbelievers(IN MUSLIMS) among the people of the Book and the idolaters, will abide in the fire of Hell. THEY ARE THE WORST OF CREATURES .”
I did not mention any religion. I said India in the modern form with central rule from Delhi was a creation of the Mughals and the British. Even the name ‘Hindu’ was given to you by outsiders. You do not have a name to call yourself. So now the author says ‘let us call ourselves pagan, and be proud !
Whichever way you look, you cannot even describe yourself.
Matlab? When he says indian he obviously means hindu. Are you saying the hindu mind is weak? Body ok, one can argue, but mind? You seem to have an inferiority complex.
Yes, the Hindu mind is weak, just like the body !
You cannot distinguish a stone from God.
The chai wallah you worship said in front of a body of Reliance doctors that Ganesha is the proof that Hindus invented plastic surgery. In fact, it is an example of trans-speciation.
Hindus drink cow’s urine and bathe in cow dung slurry.
Even the aboriginals of Papua New Guinea have more intellect.
It is a Hindu trait noted by Khushwant Singh : intelligence combined with unbelievable stupidity ! That is evident in this article praising revival of paganism and Bronze Age as virtues to reclaim.
Hinduism (specifically Vedic culture) as it is practised is all about symbolism. At least in the way it is revealed to the masses. By continually emphasizing symbolism to the masses, the masses remain forever under the yoke of Brahminism.
Idols are not mere stones. It is an object sanctified, what we call praan pratishtha. We give it our reverence because the Absolute that we may call isvara comes to live in it. The Absolute is One, but its manifestations are infinite. That is what we call Brahman (not Brahmin the caste). Classification of animists, idol worshippers etc are made only on the basis of the object of worship. I may have my idol or stone that I worship, and so may you and others. At that level, to each their own. One must not grudge the living truth. Your idea of idols as false objects of worship is erroneous. Not them who worship the idols but you with your distorted sense of Truth is wrong.
Your idea of a formless god is hogwash. A god that supposedly stands outside and waving his magic wand creates the world of forms, and then reveals his message through one Chosen prophet, who moreover communicates to you that the Truth shall be spread by any means because all means are fair for the glory of that God. It is nothing but an excuse for hateful destruction. But let’s examine the metaphysics. You say God is formless, but then assign human qualities of beneficence, mercy, fear etc. He is infinite and all powerful, yet he cannot suffer worship of any other in front of him. Is that a sign of omnipotence or insecuity? And because He is formless, you cultivate hatred for form! How intelligent indeed.
The author takes a perverse pride in Hindus being the last pagans in the world ! He must have had a dip in cow dung slurry to get such inspiration.
Are you actually using pagan and cow dung as pejoratives? I dont get it. Whats your epistemological framework? Please elaborate
You can take pride in female oppressor pervert
All the rapists in India are Hindus. Why ?
You quote Macaulay “And how can man die better, Than facing fearful odds, For the ashes of his fathers, And the temples of his Gods.” I don’t agree with Macaulay. One can most certainly die better. Dying in the emancipation of the suppressed of the day is much superior, to my mind, than dying for the legacy of your forefathers and the Gods you inherited from them. In fact, prioritizing ‘legacy’ of any kind over real injustices of the present day is not only non-optimal, but insofar as it encourages and solidifies man-made differences among humans, also dangerous.
Immature article. To summarize, let’s all ignore the crimes committed, and glorify our pagan ancestors. The writer does a gross disservice by trying to rationalize and justify the horrible atrocities including and following the 1992 demolition. Let’s talk about the recent past, the symbolism and the injustice perpetuated in the name of religion. This isn’t what Ram embodies. He’s just being used as a political tool.
‘Rebuilding is a civilisational responsibility Indians owe to their ancestors, who were the only ones among all pre-Bronze Age pagans who managed to protect their way of life.’
Indeed Hindus are pre-Bronze Age pagans, and they have not developed much since. And the author is very proud of this. Sad ! What kind of people are Hindus ? Who can respect them ?
‘As we rebuild, we must remember to not dishonour our ancients or their way of life. We must act with dharma. ‘
And what is the dharma ? Varnahrama dharma. No doubt a high caste Hindu.
As for this claim that Hindus are special pagans because they are survivors, that is only because Muslims and British had no active policy to convert each and everyone. While they were happy if Hindus converted, Akbar and all the kings were marrying and making alliances with them. Even Aurgangzeb had no conversion policy. If they opposed, he fought and he was severe as he was with anyone who opposed including his relatives. He could have easily decided to convert everyone. It was easy – just eradicate the Brahmins. Instead all Muslim and British employed Brahmins to rule.
In fact, seeing the mess India is in, it would have been better if the country had been fully converted to Islam or Christianity. That would have ended the caste system for good. Currently, India has to be labour with casteism and communalism, primitvism and Bronze Age culture !
Yeh caste kya hota hai bhai? Thoda define karega? Aur yeh islamic countries ka kya haal hai, uske upar bhi thoda apna torch dikhao. Jai Shri Ram!
@rosgolla tere hazrat mohammed ke maa ki chut. I blasphemed islam, what you gonna do?
Rasgolla, enough of your ranting. You seriously need to accept the reality of the SC judgement and move on. Hurling abuses is not helping you.
When you talk of intellectual depth, let me challenge on a few points.
1. Why is it that many of the Western scientists, especially the Quantum Mechanics school, were avid readers of the Vedas and Gita?
2. You talk loads about Varnashrama Dharma, which was a social construct and not a religious one. But then how do you explain apartheid within Abrahamic communities. There was a time when Protestants killed Catholics and vice versa. Shias and Sunnis still like blowing each other up, and on the rare occasions they band together, they do so to blow up other Islamic sects, like Ahmedis.
On the other hand, there is a wealth of evidence that in the olden times, people were allowed to defy the caste system and rise up in society. Valmiki was himself a Nishada. Ved Vyas a Shudra born outside of wedlock. And they are both remembered as Brahmins for their wisdom. Krishna was a cowherd, and yet he was more powerful than any King of yore. You may dismiss these examples as mythology, but what about the Nanda dynasty? The Maurya dynasty? How could Shudras become kings of major dynasties is they were just meant to menial work.
3. Don’t even get into the topic of intelligence. The Hindu works, the Sanskrit language are all considered highly refined. Not just us, but by every Indologist there has ever been. The Europeans were so impressed with the Vedic concepts, that they tried to appropriate them in the name of comparative linguistics and Aryanism. We invented numbers. We were solving complex math centuries before Christ was miraculously dropped from heaven to a virgin mother (imagine!). Astronomy. Surgery (well Ganesha may have been a stretch, but Charaka samhita does mention a precursor to nose lifts and other cosmetic surgeries.
Now let’s examine the Western example. The church maimed Copernicus and threatened Galileo for their scientific ideas. Not until Magellan sailed around the world did they know the earth was a sphere (almost). But for centuries hindus have been calling geography bhu-gol (spherical world) without having ventured outside the peninsula.
And this is classic:
Believers of Abrahamic religions believe that the world came from the divine couple. Then what are we but a bunch of mother-f**kers and sister-f**kers. In short, little more than animals.
4. As for your comment about hindu being a foreign word, you are right. Hindu is an Avestan word (which was a sister language of Sanskrit) referring to the Indus river. The way of life had no name for it defied definition and classification. Each and everything was part of it. The terms Hindu dharma & Turuka Dharma were coined for Indic faiths and Islam in the Vijaynagar in the 10th century.
5. Unlike Abrahamic faiths, which by their own account were busy indulging in incest in the early days, Indic scholars were amassing knowledge. Much of that was lost in the wars and invasions of the past. Consider this, people memorized and propagated the entirety of the Vedas, Puranas, Itihasas, etc orally. Can you imagine their memory and recall ability? So there is no harm in acknowledging that we were a very advanced people in the past but wars and invasions took that away from us.
5. And you say the Islamic invaders and rulers were sugar daddies and did not try to obliterate hindus. This is fairly stupid. Aurangzeb killed his own brother – an Indic minded lover of Sanskrit and the Vedas- to seize the throne. Would he have cared for his father’s relatives by marriage, when he didn’t care for his own father. He wanted power by all means. That’s just one example. Why were the super-influential Zoroastrians wiped out, leaving the few that survived to escape to India? What happened to the pre-Turkic inhabitants of Anatolia. The Romans of the middle-East? The Byzantines of Istanbul?
In your arguments you have chosen to ignore history, science, mythology, and just assert absurdities. Your arguments amount to nothing more than a big zero, which is what your handle represents. Now suck it up nice and long.
Jamadagni, excessive pride in the Vedic past leads to ego. This ego will not allow Hindus to focus on the present and build for the future.
Pretty much every ancient civilization around the world had made good contributions to mathematics, astronomy etc not just the Vedic. Almost all civilizations rose and fell. Hindu civilisation like the Chinese civilisation luckily had a continuum (unlike the Greeks, Egyptians etc.) and they survived till present day. But where are we today as a nation ? Still want to blame ‘invader’ Muslims and Christians for the state we are in?
If the teachings of our scriptures and traditions were so supreme, why is it our country is ranked number 80 in the Global Corruption Index. Why do we have such a low moral fibre? Oh yes, you may like to blame it on invasions! In contrast Christian countries are among the top in this index. Even quite a few Islamic countries are ahead of us in this index.
Jamdagni – much of what you have written shows that you are full of supremacist ideas.
The laws of Quantum Mechanics was not discovered because Westerners read Gita or Vedas. It’s possible few Western scientists and philosophers would have ventured to understand/explore ancient Hindu philosophy and just read the Vedas or Gita out of their own interest. That does not mean they found solutions to the problems of Quantum Mechanics from our scriptures.
Christians had their Renaissance moment, which questioned the excessive control of their religion. This ultimately led to the Scientific and Industrial revolution. The laptop you use, the keyboard on which you post messages to the PRINT, the network that transmits the message to the PRINT server, the electricity on which everything works , the concrete building you stay in , the plumbing which delivers water to your house, the vehicle in which you travel, the phone you use etc. practically all aspects of modern life were created in Christian countries. Do you find Westerners usually bragging about their past in various forums? I see Indians on the other hand embarassingly bragging about their past in various forums on the Internet – Quora, Youtube etc. Modern science and mathematics since the 16th century has moved our knowledge of the Natural and Physical sciences far far ahead from ancient mathematics, astronomy or medicine.
Here in our country we are seeing a Hindu revivalism eulogising ancient ideas and beliefs , mostly being stimulated by the political rise of RSS-BJP. Will our nation ever see a Renaissance moment even in the 21st century? I doubt that will ever happen, because for that to happen we have to let go much of the ideas from the past.
Then all muslims have to convert to Hinduism or be dead. Sabko kaat dalo saalon ko.
It quite literally resets everything- the idea of actual secularism, the debate of Islamic reforms, and collective purging of extremism, intersectional harmony has to be pursued now. But most importantly cleanse our every last bit of “Anglo-Imperialist” idealogues, have a robust discussion, and set the precedent of making narratives from some Washington D.C. cheap pasty white professors to India and its citizens. If where we are headed involves- nature’s sustainability, the liberation of humanity by ensuring justice and dignity, acceptance and empowerment of gender and sexual minorities, acknowledgment of long-forgotten “aboriginals”, spearheading STEM, arts, music and a much deeper insinuation of economic and social equality for an ultimately “the pursuit of happiness” than, by all means, sign me up.
‘Acknowledgment of long-forgotten “aboriginals”, spearheading STEM, arts, music and a much deeper insinuation of economic and social equality for an ultimately “the pursuit of happiness” than, by all means, sign me up.’
You are too naive. The author has mentioned ‘We must act with dharma. ‘
That means Brahmanism and caste system. That is the Hindu pagan way of life. Building new temples over mosques will not end social inequity.
Pursuit of happiness matlab? Christian wala onlyfans? Ya islam wala yezidi khalaas?
Why are u removing my comments. Shame on u.
Sir I understand the gr8 pains u take to make clear that today’s muslins must not be held responsible for the ghastly crimes of jehaad committed by their ancestors on our Hindu ancestors. Agree. But if these Muslins of today champion (as many if them do) these barbaric invaders as their heroes then they are to be held accountable. This only means that they themselves will emulate these beasts of history if an opportunity presents.
The beast of history is you with your caste system and untouchability. Muslims and Christians liberated Indians.
Muslims and Christians destroyed India.
Muslims and Christians built India. Without them, you would be junglis. Your jungli character is coming to the surface.
Those invaders liberated the sudras from Brahminical tyranny and they converted. The sudras who did not convert will be footsoldiers of Hindutva, and will be sent by Brahmins on trains and burnt. When the temple is built, they will be asked to stand outside.
Liberated my foot. If you are so happy with the invaders ideology you can go and settle in their original land. You will get the royal treatment …….. By the way they also behead people who think beyond what is written.
The caste system was distorted version of Varna. Community biases based on profession does exist everywhere even today. Do not single out one religion.
‘The caste system was distorted version of Varna. Community biases based on profession does exist everywhere even today. Do not single out one religion.’
Caste is the only tenet of Hinduism. You are the beneficary, so you want to strengthen it. The author boasts about his desire for the continuance of paganism. He is also a high born caste. The victims are the sudras. Some converted, others are kept down by force. So the Muslims and Christians are liberators.
“Community biases based on profession does exist everywhere even today.”
Class existed everywhere but not a religious spin based on one’s level in the class hierarchy.
Untouchability is quite unique to India.
The central idea behind the Vedic principle of caste is that not all men are born equal. Some men are dear to God and others aren’t.
Notwithstanding the Islamic teaching about non-believers being infidels, Islam and Christianity clearly believe that all men are equal before God. So there is more unity and brotherhood within their religious systems as compared to Hinduism.
Buddhism went a level higher and denied the existence of God.
aisa hai kya? Aur woh jannat mein kaun log andar jaa sakte hain? Ahmediya bhi nahin? Matlab? Shia.bhi.nahin? Wah! aur yeh ismaili walon ka kya haal.hoga upar? Bahut bhadiya system banake rakha.hai bhai aap log. Tareef karna padega. Jai Shri Ram!
Author is right in not criticizing today’s religious people to an extent. Nobody should criticize people of today for this. However, saying Islamic invaders liberated is stupid, and inaccurate. Islam has enslaved more than liberated. Countries in Middle east are example in today’s time. Women, homosexuals, infidels just for leaving the religion, are core examples of what has Islam worked against.
Sudras founded the Nanda & Maurya dynasties. History not your strongest subject, eh?
As I watch the Bhoomi Puja of Ram Mandir, this is wonderful article. Please ignore those who have a different mind set “Kuch to log kahenge, Logo ka kaam hai kehna”. Having pushed down their “Idea of India” down the throats of the rest, the Anglicised people of this country are unable to fathom “The civilization that is Bharat”.
We know “The civilization that is Bharat” is cover from the Brahmanical caste system and you as a Brahmin will be its beneficiary.
Rasgola is a katua
QURAN (98:6) “Surely the unbelievers(IN MUSLIMS) among the people of the Book and the idolaters, will abide in the fire of Hell. THEY ARE THE WORST OF CREATURES .”
He loves Kafirs cos his pedo Prophet told them to
I am not against the rights of pagans. Just don’t tell me to admire you ! You will remain a community incapable of ruling India.
Tera supremacist mindset janam se hi hai ki sikhaya gaya? Thoda secret reveal karna…
Adivasis and dalits are the original people of India. Everyone else is an invader and destroyer of temples or shrines. What the Ram Temple movement has started will be the model for many more demolitions in the name of correcting history.
Ramayana was written By valimiki who lived in forest and was a hunter
If you claim to be rational, go by DNA evidence which suggests that all Indians have very similar genetic make-up. There is nothing that as distinguish most groups (the North Eeast and Andamans being notable exceptions) into tribes or races. This includes most people in Bangladesh , Pakistan and Sri Lanka as well.
Agreed, Muslims and christians shouldn’t be discriminated because of these past deeds. But what to do when they themselves glorify these horrific incidents, when they chest thumpingly say that they ruled us for a thousand years. Instead of naming and shaming these atrocities, they associate themselves to these glorious events of the barbarians. Secondly, as u said, a miniscule was involved in this loot and plunder, but were majority of the people, supportive or objective of their conquests? No account have I ever seen where any one from the plunderers has objected or denounced it. The thing is so much genuine info is available that propaganda by neo fabricators is useless, unfruitful
‘Instead of naming and shaming these atrocities, they associate themselves to these glorious events of the barbarians. ‘
The majority of them converted to escape from the tyranny of the caste system. Th e Muslims and British brought freedom from Brahmin slavery. Conversion will continue.
Christian convert is talking about how Christianity is supreme
How they killed and burned people alive as they are superior
8 lakh Tutsis killed in Rwandan Genocide of 1994 is just no big deal for them.
All the Christian converts want to remain Christian. No ghar wapsie ! In fact more want to become Christian. And why not ? It would be the best for development of India. With you, there is only scope for Bronze Age primitivism.
Barbarian toh aap hai. Naam bhi babar rakhte hain and kaam bhi barbari karte hain…joke tha bhai, hasna mat
Great article. Fully agree with the points about open discussion on the history. Open but respectful discussion/debate is a key part to a Democracy which is missing.
The fact is History is at the mercy of who writes it, the plea of black Americans is a great example of it. The fact is India was a place of temples, the fact is also that our ancestors are known to be most tolerant people. It depends on us which ‘way of life’ we want to bring back!
The caste system was your system of tolerance.
You must be an upper caste.
Phir wohi. Caste ka koi definition dena, we’ll talk after that, ashrafi kahin ke
Look in Gita for definition of caste. Know your religion.
The typical pacifying lullaby- all are eternal species – if we boast about us as eternal – what about other cultures who invented all the vaccines science and healthcare – which indirectly helping us to be 1.3 billion population. Some points are good – but mostly pacifies the existential nausea and advise on building of more such temples – it is too kiddish. But inspires many people in India and many political parties. What we were in the past – I don’t care, like many ancient cultures ours is also one unique culture. But we are able to make politics and bring emotional hysteria on the basis of building temples – that is the present and that decides the future too.
Is India not contributing to health care to the world? We are the worlds factory for pharma. We are developing our own vaccines as well. Dont divert from TOPIC and comment only on the relevant points raised.
The chai wallah told you India is vishwa guru. So why is India heading for topper’s position in Covid ?
worlds factory for pharma – 70% of ingredients come from China.
You can be worlds factory only for cow’s urine, gobar and Covid Papad.
Amish Tripathi should be commended and congratulated for writing this bold article, highlighting the agressiveness of Abrahamic Religions. The Print should also be thanked and congratulated for publishing an article whose views it, evidently, does not subscribe to. Good evidence of freedom of speech and expression.
Oh, you forgot the aggressiveness of Brahmanism ? You must be its beneficiary, why would you notice.
You mean like vishwanathan anand, real.aggro brahman. Wah! Just like the guys who pulled out maharaj sambhajis eyes. Ek hi kism.ke.log hai. Go read some foucault.
Ayodhya’s RAM temple is the first real COLONIZATION of Hinduism by political power says an intellectual in today’s Indian Express.
Free speech
1.3 billion or not, surely 900 million
Convenient about wiping out of Buddhist era by blaming 1200 AD Khilji invasion when Buddhism was pretty much wiped out decades ago. No wonder though as we are live in a world of alternate history which seldom cares about historical evidances.
Do you know about the Pala Empire?
Please check the geography were Buddhism was most prevalent (Afghanistan, Kashmir). What is the population in those areas today? That should give you some clue. Buddhist believed in extreme Ahimsa and did not have a Kshatriya brigade. No way to resist invasion.
Though the event seemed like religio-political triumphalism, in the end it was actually a triumph of Brahminism.
Even with their backs to the wall due to the ascendancy of rational Buddhism, Brahminism resurged and wiped out the Buddhists 2000 years ago.
Brahminism is on the rise in India again. How this nation evolves in the next decade will be interesting for sure.
The author claims Buddhism came to an end in India due to Islam, but in fact it was the Brahmin revival led by the Kerala Brahmin Shankara and Kumarila that killed Buddhism. The Brahmins boast that Shankara saved them and India. From what ? Not the Muslims, they had not arrived. Shankara saved Brahmanism from Buddhism.
Brahamnism is on the rise in India. But it is not sustainable as their notions of caste hierarchy will be challenged.
Arre yaar, golden age of hinduism toh gupta empire tha! Uske immediate baad hinduism ko bachana pada tha kya? Zara macaulay ke gaand se sir bahar nikal.
Macaulay civilised India with a uniform civil code. He wrote that India has suffered too long under the Brahmin code where there is no punishment for the Brahmin and severe punishment to the sudra for a minor crime.
Correction : Macaulay civilised India with a uniform PENAL code.
CURIOUS ONE.which Christian Church was built with the ruble of the temple.in our pagan subcontinent..can be made a museum
Santhome church in Chennai was built over Kapaleeshwarar temple, which was then rebuilt at the current site
Very interesting and insightful article
The author does not utter a single word about how foreigners have been able to conquer India for centuries – “caste” based divisions sowed by the brahmanical order. China does not have any castes, and it has been able to withstand foreign control for most of its hesitance.
Do you read? Go read Chinese history. Ignorance breeds stupidity stupidity leads to self confidence in fools. That leads to writing such comments leading to shame in public forum
The author is in favour of the brahmanical order – he writes about governance according to dharma.
China withstand foreign invasion?
Before jumping into wrong conclusions go and read.
Is Chengiz Khan Turkish?
The invasions were definitely Islamic., not Turkish.
Actually he could be partially . It is believed his mother was from a turkic tribe. The Mongol and turkic tribes predominantly mingled in the central Asian region and spread westward after Ghenghis United them under his empire.
Chengiz Khan was a mongol and not Muslim. The Mongols followed the Shamanic religion.
I agree with you…..Amish has been a bit hasty in ignoring the Arab Islamic, and the Mongol quasi-Islamic invasions of India, concentrating on invasions from the late Delhi Sultanate period (which were predominantly Turkic Islamic in nature)
Very good, sound argument.
Interesting how we as humans love to hold onto the old. So if our ancestors were living in caves and had a certain cultural life, do we hold onto that too.
And thousand years later, how will our descendants look at us? That we still led a life and tradition of an old society or developed new systems and traditions which were much more culturally in tune with the times.
History means nothing if we do not create our own history which is morally and systemically human and rational.
Now are times when Hindus will destroy any Mosques that comes our way.Hindustan is a HINDU Rastra don’t forget about it.JAI HIND.
When I first saw the temples of South India – old, intricately carved, majestic – I remember feeling a sense of loss for such structures in North, where I was born. I wonder whether this sense of loss isjustified? I was a child in 80s but all I remember are deities such as Shitala Devi and Hanuman ji. Around late 80s, the Hindu Gods’ temple started to come up. I don’t even know whether my forefathers would have been allowed in those temples. Truth is I feel sense of loss and deeply aware of inequalities due to caste/varna system. I wish the temples were still there but building new structures will neither make the feeling of loss go away nor will help in making the society equitable. No, we don’t owe anything to our ancestors, but we owe a lot to the future generations. And that is the sobering thought.
Those porno temples in Khajurao were left for you, take your family there. The Chandella kings were busy with them, they did not see the Muslims coming, like Modi did not see the Chinese coming.
Muslims coming matlab? Aapke ancestors toh hindu hi the. They saw the muslims coming? Stockholm syndrome ka had paar kar diya be tum
Both Abraham religions were brutal. Crusader’s killed millions of Jews and Muslims. Turk muslims killed millions of Armenians. Some one said prefer iit and iim those are converted souls. We need both history and iit. Italy and Greece half of their GDP is thru tourism. Luckily south India kept the Hinduism alive.
South India will separate due to Hindi imposition. All this paganism cannot unite.
8000 years bro. Out of your league. We have a special paganism going, not your arab variety
“We must understand that Indian Muslims and Christians of today have nothing to do with what the pre-modern Europeans, Turks, and other foreign invaders did.”
Above line by author clearly depicts what is wrong with the society today and how it is divided between “we” and “them”. “We” here are regimented Hindus and their right wing leaders who have conveniently assumed that this country belongs to “we” and that “we” can unilaterally take decisions to suit themselves, whereas the rest others are “they”.
As far as the Indian history is concerned, Turkic rules have the biggest stake in Indian documented and verified history. So by the logic of the author, now Muslims should have the civilisational responsibility to build the Masjid back.
Anyways, good time pass gimmick by author to sell some more books. I found the article entertaining but spiritless.
India is not Arabia, everything is in process. Now we have reclaimed our land back. The land of India belongs to local son and not to those who follow Arabi culture
The local son remains a primitive pagan and a misfit in the world according to the author !
The author uses Pagan only to differentiate the Abrahamic religions from the rest. The Vedas and the Upanishads are primitive ? People who developed the sanskrit language are primitive ?
The author says pagan and Bronze Age. He does not want to come out of that age.
People who developed the caste system and denied knowledge and promoted dank superstition are primitive.
Best article…. I ever read on the print…. ???
Thank you Amish
Imperialism, dictatorship, democracy, federalism etc are different forms of the same phenomenon as society evolved. Invasions, holocaust, ethnic cleansing etc are the ways how they existed till their rejection. This will continue to happen always. The people and the times will judge them and the world goes on. Pagans, Abrahamic, atheists etc are but names of different people’s thought processes in those times. They will always be replaced by others in time. We as humans need something to lean on for our ignorance. Thats how it works.
These are my personal views
I am not sure if Ram Temple would not be destroyed by Muslims again as it’s a matter of time they increase their population and this time use democracy to establish Islamic rule in India. Hindus were defeated by Muslims in the past and it may happen again during next 100 to 200 years. Modi type leaders are rare and anything can happen in future.
Yes sir spit on. Muslim leaders have already declared their intentions clearly to reverse the temple and destroy it when they become majority.
One of the best articles The Print published till now , salute sirji , great article with depth
Dear Aamish Tripathi
I believe Vaidik Hinduism did not worship idols, did not have temples. (Aarya Samaj follows Vaidik Hinduism). The Vaidik Hinduism absorbed those Pagan practices from local/ tribal religions to create the Sanatan Dharma now called Hinduism. Is this belief right?
I have also believed that a Khilji destroyed Nalanda. Here is a very different view by historian DN Jha. The extract below from his article may be shocking to many of us.
Quote: But the ultimate destruction of the Nalanda Mahavihara was, as I described in a 2006 address to the Indian History Congress, caused by Hindu fanatics who set fire to its library. The popular view, however, wrongly attributes this conflagration to the Mamluk commander Bakhtiyar Khilji, who never went there, but, in fact, sacked the nearby Odantapuri Mahavihara at modern-day Bihar Sharif. Bakhtiyar is also believed to have destroyed the Vikramashila Mahavihara—a centre of Vajrayana located at modern Antichak, near Bhagalpur in Jharkhand, and founded in the eighth century by the Pala ruler Dharmapala. But this, too, is not borne out by evidence, which seems to attribute the destruction to a conflagration and an attack probably by the Sena rulers of Bengal, who were inimical to Buddhism. Like them, the eleventh-century Kalachuri king Karna, who was also hostile to Buddhism, had earlier destroyed many Buddhist temples and monasteries in Magadha. In this region, according to the seventeenth-century Tibetan scholar Taranatha, 84 temples were destroyed, including at Nalanda. Unquote
Destruction of Buddhist temples by Hindu kings is mentioned by many Chinese travellers of that era, it might be the bitter truth, at least partially. Only honest history scholars can judge. Indian school textbooks rightly focus on positive part of our history for the young minds, downplaying the atrocities (often controversial) which are best dealt at university level. We should learn from history, not live in history which is more complex than what we believe.
See below a few more extracts from the same article of Jha.
Quote: Central to their perception is the belief that Muslim rulers indiscriminately demolished Hindu temples and broke Hindu idols. They relentlessly propagate the canard that 60,000 Hindu temples were demolished during Muslim rule, though there is hardly any credible evidence for the destruction of more than 80 of them. On the other hand, even a cursory survey of historical evidence shows that the demolition and desecration of rival religious establishments, and the appropriation of their idols, was not uncommon in India before the advent of Islam…..
The Chinese Buddhist pilgrim and traveller Hsüan Tsang, who visited India between the years 631 and 645, during the reign of Harshavardhana, states that the sixth-century Huna ruler Mihirakula, a devotee of Shiva, destroyed 1,600 Buddhist stupas and monasteries and killed thousands of Buddhist monks and laity. He further tells us that 1,000 sangharamas in Gandhara were “deserted” and in “ruins,” and describes 1,400 sangharamas in Uddiyana as “generally waste and desolate.” ….
In some parts of the country, as in Kashmir, the rulers ordered the demolition of temples and Buddhist establishments, both as personal vendetta and a matter of policy. Kalhana (author of Rajatarangini, a history of Kashmir in Sanskrit) makes an interesting reference to the king Nara, who, angered by a Buddhist monk who seduced his wife, “burned thousands of viharas” in revenge. He also speaks of the tenth-century king Kshemagupta, who destroyed the Buddhist monastery of Jayendravihara at Srinagar and used its materials for the construction of the Kshemagaurishvara temple.
Unquote
Source: https://caravanmagazine.in/reviews-and-essays/dn-jha-destruction-buddhist-sites
Lastly, was demolition of Babri mosque justified? Was it legal or illegal? Was it not possible to build a temple without carrying out the act?
The article is baseless, it is quoting a third source based on a write up of 1800s, after 600 yrs of that incident. And in that source it never talks about somebody destroying it. You think a whole library spread out over vast acres of land will get destroyed by one man. The logic is itself poor. On the other hand bakhtiar crime is documented in Persian sources written some yrs after the incident.
The structure was a controversial one build in 16th century after destruction of a temple and has been rightfully removed to pave way for the construction of shrine whose place it belong to.
This guy Ramder is a converted Christian and anti Hindu , just watch his YouTube videos , he claims , Aurangzeb destroyed Kashi Vishwanath temple because Hindu priests raped a princes in Vishwanath temple !!! Hindus can decide what to do with Reamder and his family for such false propaganda .
Aurangzeb destroyed Kashi Vishwanath temple because Hindu priests raped a princes in Vishwanath temple
That is entirely credible. Look at the Assaram. Look at the Katua rape of a 8 year old by a priest in a temple in Kashmir, So why is the above not possible ? Hindu priests are capable of that even today.
Ab main mauna vrat loonga. Jhoot ka had paar kar diya rosogolla ne. Itne sweet ho, itne achche achche words use karke hate phailate ho. Wah! Tareedon se nahin, yeh manne wala. Adios bro.
Don’t use pagan language in front of me.
Rasgulla, get a life, You’re overlords in Pakistan will be speaking Mandarin in 10 years. You’ll be working in a lo mein restaurant instead of whatever rubbish you’re doing now. Jai Shree Ram
Hindus will be ceding land to Mandarin speakers quietly while revelling in their paganism fest in
Ayodhya ! You are incapable of defending India.
Reddy- I am not Ramder. Read again. I am Ramdar , abbreviation of Ram Darxxxx, a proud & liberal Hindu. I have never made or uploaded any You-tube video. I have quoted from article of a Historian named Jha, a Hindu. Anyway, you proved your fanatic, intolerant mind. Wish you had posted a link to the Youtube video that you are writing about.
Mr Shekhar Gupta – How do you allow such threatening messages?
I appreciate the writers concluding views, namely, ” We must speak the truth….without engendering hatred. We must act , but with calm collective resolve, not with insecure aggression. We must understand the Indian Muslims and Christians
of today have nothing to do with what the pre-modern European, Turks, and other foreign invaders did.”
Whitewashing your hatred and violence won’t take you far, nor trying to elevate the pygmies to the level of great kings as yo udo in your propaganda books.
Take a chill pill, for the destruction of Babri or the daily subjugation and vilification of minorities is going to haunt you for centuries to come and then some new amish will rehash some B. S. to gain sympathy.
Your pagan crimes against humanity, against people of your own ilk, what to talk of others and still continuing is reaching its shelf life.
Talk about your Arabic crime you barbarian Bedouin follower. You people are not even local sons but Arabi stooges. Great kings?? We are living today, and the land has been reclaimed by Dharmics back.
You are living today, but Hindu mind has not developed past paganism and Bronze Age according to the author !
Playing victim after committing the ghastliest of mass crimes on the Khafir is an established 1400 yr old habit.
U people Trojaned into the INC in 1927 and pretended as if U are our friends in the task of ejecting the British from our lands. Once were sure that the white Christian khafir was leaving, U took out ur hidden knife against the trusting and unwary ally Hindu khafir and extorted Pak thru murderous mass riots. And then u did not leave out lands even after this grand treachery. And now U align and pretend to be eternal friends with khafir pseudosecular parties like Cong, CPM.DMK, SP, BSP, TMC and train ur guns from their shoulders on Hindus . And once U succeed in finishing off Hindus, U would remove ur hidden knife and stab ur unsuspecting pseudosecular allies in the same manner u did to the INC and Gandhi in 47.
‘stab ur unsuspecting pseudosecular allies in the same manner u did to the INC and Gandhi in 47.’
Gandhi was shot by one of your RSS Hindus.
Playing victim is a 1400 yr old habit.
They have a perverse pride as pagan survivalists ! Hindutva has nothing else to show.
No one invited you to take a dump. This is sacred pagan space – get out you white supremacist rasagolla hah!
Sacred pagan dump of slumdogs, holy cows and their dung. You are the largest body of primitives on earth.
Brilliant article. Can The Print invite such authors to write rather than its brood of self certified “talented young reporters”? Can the editor see the difference in this article and the ones written by Shivam Vij, DK Mandal, Zainab Sikandar, Bismee Taksim etc?
Our forefathers indeed faced massive persecution and suffered immense oppression…..and in my opinion they have been justly rewarded in today’s time and age in terms of earning the freedom to build as many temples,mosques,churches as we like without facing any hurdle or persecution…..we are free to go to our temples and mosques unlike earlier times……this is what we have earned….Why are we obsessed with the idea of rebuilding civilization via destruction of present day structures……what good will that do? Why are we refusing to read between the lines and admitting to the fact that we are repeating henious history exactly the same way as the barbaric regimes did!
One of the most convincing arguments. Very deep thought both contemporary and leaving baggage.
i differ on several ideas with the writer but would first like to draw attention to 2 points. 1: should historical justice be granted to the “nagas” as well for burning down their forest by the aryans as is cited in the “Mahabharata”? 2: it is not the rajput and maratha “Kings” who saved the culture but the well segmented caste system. the ever itinerant Brahman being the most adept at salvaging his lot and the shrewd vaishya in protecting his interests. the kings mentioned here are a frivolously glorified category that more than cultural integrity are reflective of the European obsession with “nation and nationality of the british raj era.
If the Brahman and the Vaishya had only cared about “salvaging their lot”, Hindu culture would have died long back. If it has survived for so long and against such odds and continues to flourish today, it is simply because every single constituent caste was unwavering in its commitment to the sanatana dharma. Some may have converted, that too mostly under distress with the sword hanging over their heads, but an overwhelming majority did not. No matter what history threw at them, and history has been pretty unforgiving to them, their belief and faith remained intact.
Of course, all of this will no doubt hurts and pains the liberal/secular cabal. For them, wholesale conversions to Islam and Christianity is proof of India’s secularism. The moment it stops or even slows down, India no longer remains “secular”.
First define who are nagvanshi, they are part of Hindu faith in many groups from Rajputs , Jats, to others etc. So, you are incorrect on facts
‘Amiss’ it is not surprising you said all this considering your books and the evolving popularity of ‘Hinduism and nothing else in India’ who might read your books where you deify Gods and make them ‘cool’ and ‘modern’ with a good dash of creativity. But it is still not completely proven that the items under the masjid were definitely from a temple. Would it be ok for people right now to raze a temple just because there could have been a mosque underneath it? Great to say let’s move on cause there are 1.3 billion people behind it and united. I guess from UK you must be seeing clearly now!
Whatever may be the structure under Babari but was surely it was not the structure of a Masjid. Muslims have no claim whatsoever. Their problems are only political.
The wrongs that were done to Buddhists and Hindus, not just in India but also in Afghanistan, Central Asia and other places, must be acknowledged. The brutal reign of terror unleashed by the invading Islamic forces on the Buddhist and Hindu cultures of these lands are a fact of history. No matter what you do or say will you be able to erase this.
The destruction, pillage and wholesale massacres accompanying Islamic conquests of these lands must be acknowledged. In most places the original culture and heritage was destroyed completely. Its just in India and a few other places that it managed to survive the Abrahamic onslaught.
That is fake news. Read the Supreme Court Judgement and all the various arguments in there.
Other comments may be valid, but this one is not.
‘But it is still not completely proven that the items under the masjid were definitely from a temple. ‘
That is correct, there is no published and indisputable scientific evidence. The court has given a verdict that the mob wants. The VHP and similar Hindu groups circulate photos claiming a temple and Hindus want to believe and it becomes a fact for them. It is Third World mentality and India cannot come out of it.
Meaning no disrespect, but neither enterprise gets my vote. I would rather we build more IITs, IIMs, AIIMSes. Our public hospitals are still not good enough for people of consequence.
IITs, IIMs, AIIMSes could produce only slave minds. Scientists, Engineers and doctors produced by these institutions are made of borrowed knowledge. Time has come now for India to create original thinkers and build India to lead i.e. not to follow like now. There are many areas where India can lead.
Keep fantasizing and dreaming!
Only rational thinking and scientific mindset can generate new knowledge and discoveries. Not clinging on to 2000-3000 year old beliefs.
Go ahead and build it on places of Abrahamic religious structure. I am with you
A cliche argument, devoid of sense. Building temples and educational institutions aren’t exclusive to each other. One is to enrich the soul and the other for the mind. India has enough resources to build both.
Classic intellectual fudgery. It is a sacred spot (by belief) which cannot be shifted. Any secular institution can be shifted and even multiplied… Would you prefer 10 IITs at ten different locations in India or 1 at this sacred spot? If it’s the latter, it will be a testimony to your fear of taking bold intellectual decisions.
Any bold decision will antagonize somebody. You need guts to accept the decision and not hide behind so-called secular safe words
Well said – how many votes will be cast for those institutes.
There are 1000s of churches and mosques are being build all over india every year. why dont you ask them to build the mentioned things instead. ohh but then we will be called communal. it is easy to attach hindus and looks cool.