scorecardresearch
Friday, March 29, 2024
Support Our Journalism
HomeOpinionWhen an RSS chief was supremely unimpressed with Atal Bihari Vajpayee

When an RSS chief was supremely unimpressed with Atal Bihari Vajpayee

Follow Us :
Text Size:

Then-RSS chief K.S. Sudarshan didn’t rate Vajpayee’s term as PM highly, and was clearly upset about his son-in-law interfering in party and government affairs.

Of all the 600-plus episodes of NDTV’s ‘Walk the Talk’, my conversation with the then-RSS chief K.S. Sudarshan was the newsiest. It is relevant to share excerpts from it on Atal Bihari Vajpayee’s birthday, as Sudarshanji took the conversation in the direction he wanted, to Vajpayee, whom he detested, his foster family, and Brajesh Mishra. It was evident that he had planned the whole thing and proceeded to say exactly what he had intended.

It brought me great headlines and an affectionate but firm dressing down from Vajpayee. “How could I interrupt him, Atalji, he is the Sarsanghchalak!” I tried to talk my way out, and sure enough, Vajpayee smiled back, “Haan, haan, aap kyon rokenge. Aap kahenge boliye, boliye, bolte rahiye ki Atalji buddhe ho gaye hain, retire ho jaane chahiyen” (Yes, yes, why would you stop him. You will instead ask him to carry on saying that I have grown old, should retire).

I am not sure whether this was indeed the intention of the RSS, but the BJP took a long time to recover from the shock of Sudarshan’s plain-speak. And Vajpayee, who adored the RSS as his only guru even as he had outgrown it socially, politically and philosophically, never recovered from the emotional injury.

Some excerpts as Vajpayee turns 93 today:

Shekhar Gupta: In the six years of the NDA in power, many of the leaders who created embarrassing controversies had an RSS background. Even dissenting leaders like Uma Bharati, Kalyan Singh have an RSS background. Though the common belief is that people with an RSS background are disciplined.

K.S. Sudarshan: Since we are all human, many things can influence us. We train people to resist influences. But when people are in greater contact with the outside world, there is a greater likelihood of their being misguided. In politics, this is highly possible.

SG: Is there any leader who you think should come back to the RSS?

KS: We have taken some people back.

SG: Kalyan Singh and Uma Bharati—they played a big role in maligning the image of the BJP. What do you think?

KS: There are two personalities in Uma Bharati. One of a yogi, and the other of a stubborn child.

SG: Is it okay to make such a person CM or a cabinet minister?

KS: Once the person is in the BJP, the party decides what responsibility he or she gets.

SG: Were you in favour of the BJP forming the government?

KS: I and many others felt that the BJP should form the government. Because the other option was not good. The other option was making a foreign woman the PM of the country. That wasn’t good for our country.

SG: What are the achievements and failures of the six years of the BJP-NDA government?

KS: After coming to power, they made India a nuclear state. Even the spy satellites of US couldn’t find out [in May 1998 that India was going to test].

SG: And America improved relations?

KS: America thinks that its biggest enemy is China. And if there is one country which can stand up to China, it is India.

SG: Do you think there should be a generational shift in the BJP also?

KS: Yes, there should be. We have told them how long will they be there.

SG: Atalji is repeatedly saying, ‘I am tired…’

KS: He has been saying so before. We are telling the top leadership to step aside and bring in new people. They [top leaders] should be there as advisors.

SG: So the time has come for some people to retire?

KS: Yes, absolutely. Age should be taken into consideration. This happens in the RSS. When [Madhukar Dattatreya] Deoras felt he couldn’t carry on, he immediately passed on the baton to Rajju bhaiya [Rajendra Singh].

SG: Atalji has just said, ‘I am tired and it’s time to retire.’ Do you agree with him?

KS: I have been saying this for a long time. Bring in new leadership and be a witness to their growth.

SG: Many new leaders of the BJP, even with RSS backgrounds, don’t match with its culture. They flaunt one lakh rupee pens, five lakh rupee watches, 25 lakh rupee cars.

KS: Such people should not be promoted. Those who can serve as good role models should be promoted.

SG: Advani and Vajpayee are around the same age.

KS: Both should step aside and guide the emergence of a new leadership.

SG: Who are the leaders who you think should be promoted?

KS: This is their [party’s] job to decide.

SG: In the six years of the NDA, were there any policies they consulted you on or did you advise them about anything?

KS: If we felt there was something wrong with any policy, we told them about it. We did not like their bringing to an end conversations with mass organisations.

SG: You are referring to VHP, Bajrang Dal…

KS: Yes. And also Vidyarthi Parishad, Bharatiya Mazdoor Sangh…They should have been in touch with these organisations.

SG: The VHP used a very strong word, ‘traitor’, for Vajpayeeji.

KS: Because even after their many attempts, the dialogue process did not begin. What else could they have done?

SG: In future politics, will leaders of the BJP be from RSS background? Or could people with non-RSS backgrounds also be leaders of the BJP?

KS: Anyone could be. We never said all good people are only with us and there are no good people outside.

SG: You want the BJP to widen its reach?

KS: They will need to do this. They are a mass organisation. They are in politics. They will need to go to everyone.

SG: You have been a witness to politics for a long time. Who would you consider two or three great leaders of the country?

KS: When Nehruji became [PM], whatever he did was dangerous for the country.

SG: No, tell me about great leaders of the country.

KS: Shrimati Indira Gandhi had one good quality of not being pressurised by anyone. But she was self-centred. Whatever she did was aimed at keeping herself in power.

SG: You think Indiraji was among our great leaders?

KS: From the point of view of national interest, I think so. But she was self-centred.

SG: But when I asked about great leaders, the first name you mentioned is Indiraji!

KS: Yes. She had the right understanding of circumstances, people. If she had taken decisions in the national interest, our country would have got another Chanakya.

SG: Who has been the next significant leader?

KS: After that Narasimha Raoji came. But even he put restrictions on the RSS.

SG: Who after them? Both names you have mentioned are from the Congress. Tell me about some non-Congress leader, from your party, your group.

KS: In my group, Advaniji has administrative skills. He ensured he never became a parallel power centre. Whatever they talked among themselves, he never opposed Atalji.

SG: You have not named Atalji so far. He is considered a great leader. You have taken three names but not his.

KS: I don’t think he has done anything that great. He has taken some good decisions. He should have maintained relations with everyone [Sangh Parivar] but he didn’t.

SG: Did you ever think of changing the PM in six years of NDA?

KS: No, we never said so. This was for the BJP to decide.

SG: Do you think your public criticism has harmed the BJP? After Tehelka case, you criticised Brijesh Mishra.

KS: Yes, I did criticise Brijesh Mishra, and I think I did absolutely right. He (Vajpayee) even got angry for this. Brijesh Mishra used to keep relations on both sides. He used to keep relations with the Sonia Gandhi camp, and also on this side.

SG: Were you fully confident of this?

KS: I only said this: you had given him two responsibilities – one about national security and the other about the country’s foreign policy. These are two issues which will require him to work for 36 hours, but there are only 24 hours, so he will not be able to do justice to his job. Since he has lived in foreign countries for long, just keep him in advisory role for foreign policy, for national security you should appoint somebody else.

SG: You have criticised Vajpayee’s family. Was this a cause of trouble for you?

KS: We told him when he became prime minister, don’t let your son-in-law interfere in party or government affairs. He acknowledged that but admitted it was difficult.

SG: Did he ever say it was unfair to target his son-in-law, that his son-in-law was being dragged in false cases?

KS: Yes, he said people keep targeting like this. It is no big deal. I said no it’s not just this. People don’t say such things just like that. There is always something behind such issues.

SG: Even the people in the RSS told me he is the Sanjay Gandhi of the NDA. When RSS says something, it has consequences.

KS: Who said what, I can’t talk about this. But we had told him in no uncertain terms to check his near and dear ones, like Advani did. He never let his son and daughter get undue advantage of his post. The ideal set by Advani, we expected the same from Vajpayee. But he did not pay attention.

SG: Was this his weakness or compulsion?

KS: Whatever you say, the fact is he didn’t pay attention.

SG: There have been two incidents when the RSS helped the Congress. In the 1984 election of Rajiv Gandhi…

KS: No, this is wrong.

SG: In Kerala, you have also said the RSS helped the Congress in defeating the Marxists.

KS: In 2001, we did.

SG: Today the Marxists and the Congress have come together to keep the BJP and Sangh Parivar out of power. Is it possible for the BJP, Congress and RSS to come together to keep Marxists out of power?

KS: Yes, it is possible. There is no permanent enemy or friend in politics. No one is an untouchable in politics.

SG: There can be a turnaround of this kind in the country’s politics?

KS: Yes, it is possible.

SG: Because of the Modi government in Gujarat, has the BJP’s, Sangh’s and country’s image suffered or gained?

KS: In the elections he got a two-thirds majority, even though all the papers were writing against him.

SG: While the riots were taking place in Gujarat, did you ever feel what was happening was wrong?

KS: After three or four days, I had issued a statement saying that whatever was happening in reaction was wrong because as a result many innocent people were killed.

Notes:

K.S. Sudarshan stepped down as RSS chief in March 2009 for health reasons. He passed away in September 2012.

P.V. Narasimha Rao’s government banned the RSS after the demolition of the Babri Masjid in December 1992.

Subscribe to our channels on YouTube, Telegram & WhatsApp

Support Our Journalism

India needs fair, non-hyphenated and questioning journalism, packed with on-ground reporting. ThePrint – with exceptional reporters, columnists and editors – is doing just that.

Sustaining this needs support from wonderful readers like you.

Whether you live in India or overseas, you can take a paid subscription by clicking here.

Support Our Journalism

1 COMMENT

LEAVE A REPLY

Please enter your comment!
Please enter your name here

Most Popular