India’s threat to China is simple: show aggression at LAC and pay a cost in worsening ties. But the value of the threat, and hence its credibility, is questionable.
Talks have begun at Chushul-Moldo meeting point at LAC. India is represented by 14 Corps Commander Lt. Gen. Harinder Singh and MEA joint secretary looking after China.
China is different now, might think India is ‘arrogant’ for pretending parity. Ladakh stand-off should be a wake-up call on what’s real, not illusory, power.
MEA has told the Chinese envoy that even though Zhenhua is a privately-owned firm, it is a matter of 'concern' that it is snooping on the personal data of prominent Indians.
Ajit Doval and Yang Jiechi, the national security advisers of India and China, respectively, have known each other for a long time and share a bonhomie of sorts.
Situation at Line of Actual Control, which borders China, remains tense after four rounds of firing occurred at the southern and northern banks of Pangong Tso lake since 29 August.
TROPEX or Theatre-Level Readiness and Operational Exercise is carried out by the Navy every alternate year, with individual command exercises held in the intervening period.
Defence Minister Rajnath Singh reads out statement in Parliament, saying violent conduct of Chinese forces has been in complete violation of all agreed norms.
Alongside buying into the grift that is dating apps, the girlies are also installing astrology apps like Astrotalk to investigate the same tired mystery—will he ever text back?
Aquaculture is the fastest growing food sector in Africa, offering significant returns on investment for all involved and achieving the continent’s goals for food security, dignified livelihoods and economic growth.
Bihar is blessed with a land more fertile for revolutions than any in India. Why has it fallen so far behind then? Constant obsession with politics is at the root of its destruction.
So many “IFs”; One big IF, the author ignored (may be intentionally) is gauging the strategy of Modi which I am sure is beyond the thinking of this Leftist Professor. When Wuhan and Mamallapuram summits happened, it was following an already laid out path since 1990. Now the path is destroyed and the path which Modi is going to travel is nobody’s guess. and particularly to this Professor.
For as long as the Indo China conflict came into the fore we have been trying to understand what China wants or how China /CCP operates. And all we have been trying to do is trying to figure out China. Perhaps we have been asking the wrong questions all along. I dont think we must devote too much of our time into figuring out what China wants. The question we need to ask is do we really want to become a world player? If yes we need to change our self doubting mindset. I dont care if its BJP or Congress frankly all the political parties are the same more or less good manipulators .. one quality among many these parties share. China changes its stance to suit itself. As simple as that. We need to send a clear message to China that we are ready to see this conflict to the end. Once China realizes that, thing would eventually start to change. We must have a serious dialogue vis a vis our China policy, which I feel is wrong right from day 1. We must rise above left vs right debate which I feel is a waste of time. Militarily we must not back down whatever be the cost. Army’s job is to fight under any circumstances. If we cannot take losses then we must not pretend to be a rising power.
Typical leftist leaning mindset which fails to recognize deep Bharatiya civilizational thinking at play here under current government. At its root its always about “Sama Dana Bedha Dhanda”. The Indian govt’s big dhanda this time will be a gradient and incremental vacuity of face saving options for the Chinese regime if their hara-kiri persists. The CPC had a face saving formula on offer on table by the Indian govt. THe Indian govt has already made it amply clear that they will pull the plug on it at a time of their choosing. The Bedha was the threat of economic decoupling. Governments prior tried Sama and Dana and as expected resulted in little.
A long drawn eye ball to eye ball confrontation will send a signal to the rest of Indo-China that this strategy actually works and can call China’s empty bluffs. The biggest fear in Chinese dictatorship circles now is the absence of a face saver formula. Loss of face for China is actually worse than military defeat. In the case of the latter, a purge is justified and fingers pointed at the “Capitalist Bourgeoisie”. Loss of face is a clear unveiling of the lies that the system is built upon. The Indian govt knows this all too well and will bide its time turning the heat up and down with impunity at a time and place of its choosing. The Indian govt also knows that it can comfortably handle a battle of attrition in terms of deployment, after all it has ground Pakistan to dust in the Siachen glacier. The CCP is now between a rock and a hard place with a face saver option window slowly being closed on it by Indian govt. My condolences to the powers that be in China.
JNU eh!!! A bit surprised that folks at JNU harbor such opinions. Interesting read nonetheless. Indeed India should use all tools at its disposal against China. Make it expensive affair. Internationally it is not as easy to make China a Pariah. It may happen as the demographics of he nation changes. Wait and keep the pot boiling to a time of your advantage. Liberation of Tibet should be tacit goal. Unsaid, but on our minds all the time.
I think most of us are missing the point.
In the end, as China itself has taught to the world, future relations will depend on the perceptions we project to the opponent and to the world at large. Our taking a stand and refusing to back down from preserving our territory and staring a much stronger China in the eye, despite obvious threats of war and annihilation have stumped China, which had got used to the perceptions we projected earlier of a weak state willing to eat the humble pie and desperate to pursue peace even in face of grave provocations.
This is probably the reason we have been chosen to message to the world at large that the Chinese have arrived in the arena as a powerful alternative to Europe and US and that any resistance is not only foolish but also futile.
That this proved to be a miscalculation, with Modi standing firm unlike earlier when in face of worries of Chinese displeasure we were even unwilling to visit Tawang, our own area.
Now that the Chinese have committed themselves, they are in a situation that if they are unable to force a step down by India on seemingly their own terms, the war of narratives will be lost and they will face immense resistance in every other theater of expansion / enforced trade. That this will have huge implications to Xi’s and in fact the CPC’s position internally is an added factor.
I feel that viewing the present contact only in terms of a few billion dollars trade or a few Km of land is wrong. The game and the prize at stake is far bigger.
So the logic is to let the neighbor bleed you by challenging your national interest and sovereignty but nothing should come in between business interest.
This reminds me of people to people contact with Pakistan. Pakistan can kill Indians at will, attack India at will but business should not suffer.
To know the level of importance China attaches to India, you need to open Global Times. They have the following sections on their website (in order)
– China-US
– China-India
– China-Europe
– Other Regions (includes Japan, Russia, South Korea, Australia, SE Asia, Mid East, Africa, Latin America etc)
Additionally, anyone who understands even basics of Game Theory will know that to get a favorable outcome you have reduce the payoffs for the opposite side and raise costs for them by acting seemingly irrationally. The fact that we’re indicating to China that there will be implications for the larger relationship is the perfect strategy.
The alternative is that we let them assume primacy in the relationship and let them threaten us militarily as and when the please.
The writer is quite correct. China no longer cares for good relationship with India. But, India wrongly presumes so – that peace at border is essential for good relationship between the two countries. How can there be any relationship with China which no longer cares for relationship with India? But, Modi government is behaving like a good school boy, who adheres to rules and expects a pat on the back. This government ought to be more assertive, even agressive while dealing with China. Our soldiers occupying unoccupied heights in Pangong Tso is hardly assertiveness or aggressiveness.
So if tomorrow India heats up border and changes status quo, we should expect China to keep good relations with India? If we consider current relation good anyways – UN permanent seat issue, Nuclear Supply group issue, Support to Pakistans terrorism, illligal construction in POK, no respect of One India policy….. hmmm why would India not care much? My wild guess also says, China making $65 billion from India isn’t such a bad deal.
I can’t believe such shallow articles find space on ThPrint, brings the who standard of this platform down.
The author says linking border peace with relationship may not yield anything, but does not suggest an alternative.
Also the fact that there was peace in the border for 2 decades is a wrong notion. There was peace because we ignored china’s salami slicing game. We have woken up to its implications only now
Among all the views and opinions on India-China relations, this one is closest to the pragmatic and realpolitik relationship between these two nations. You cannot trade horses for bulls, where the power balance is heavily tilted towards the owner of the horse.
India must stick to zero trade till border dispute and demarcation is resolved. China does not care for India’s sensitivities. But India must learn to move on without importing anything from the Rouge state, only then it will earn respect from China.
India may not be big enough market TODAY for China but despite all the hiccups there is a broad international consensus on potential size of Indian market over next 2 decades – see the response of middle eastern nations and US tech giants’ keenness on India.
Political ties once damaged will take a very long time to repair …China will easily miss out on investing dozens of unicorns in India and be a large part of this consumer economy.
And we won’t be a military pushover either…as China has done so is the case with us…once the border infrastructure is upgraded – as is being rapidly done – all the sly behaviour of past by China may not be as effective. …
I would argue we govt is the right track here handling China…and our market will be our biggest strategic weapon..
So many “IFs”; One big IF, the author ignored (may be intentionally) is gauging the strategy of Modi which I am sure is beyond the thinking of this Leftist Professor. When Wuhan and Mamallapuram summits happened, it was following an already laid out path since 1990. Now the path is destroyed and the path which Modi is going to travel is nobody’s guess. and particularly to this Professor.
For as long as the Indo China conflict came into the fore we have been trying to understand what China wants or how China /CCP operates. And all we have been trying to do is trying to figure out China. Perhaps we have been asking the wrong questions all along. I dont think we must devote too much of our time into figuring out what China wants. The question we need to ask is do we really want to become a world player? If yes we need to change our self doubting mindset. I dont care if its BJP or Congress frankly all the political parties are the same more or less good manipulators .. one quality among many these parties share. China changes its stance to suit itself. As simple as that. We need to send a clear message to China that we are ready to see this conflict to the end. Once China realizes that, thing would eventually start to change. We must have a serious dialogue vis a vis our China policy, which I feel is wrong right from day 1. We must rise above left vs right debate which I feel is a waste of time. Militarily we must not back down whatever be the cost. Army’s job is to fight under any circumstances. If we cannot take losses then we must not pretend to be a rising power.
Typical leftist leaning mindset which fails to recognize deep Bharatiya civilizational thinking at play here under current government. At its root its always about “Sama Dana Bedha Dhanda”. The Indian govt’s big dhanda this time will be a gradient and incremental vacuity of face saving options for the Chinese regime if their hara-kiri persists. The CPC had a face saving formula on offer on table by the Indian govt. THe Indian govt has already made it amply clear that they will pull the plug on it at a time of their choosing. The Bedha was the threat of economic decoupling. Governments prior tried Sama and Dana and as expected resulted in little.
A long drawn eye ball to eye ball confrontation will send a signal to the rest of Indo-China that this strategy actually works and can call China’s empty bluffs. The biggest fear in Chinese dictatorship circles now is the absence of a face saver formula. Loss of face for China is actually worse than military defeat. In the case of the latter, a purge is justified and fingers pointed at the “Capitalist Bourgeoisie”. Loss of face is a clear unveiling of the lies that the system is built upon. The Indian govt knows this all too well and will bide its time turning the heat up and down with impunity at a time and place of its choosing. The Indian govt also knows that it can comfortably handle a battle of attrition in terms of deployment, after all it has ground Pakistan to dust in the Siachen glacier. The CCP is now between a rock and a hard place with a face saver option window slowly being closed on it by Indian govt. My condolences to the powers that be in China.
JNU eh!!! A bit surprised that folks at JNU harbor such opinions. Interesting read nonetheless. Indeed India should use all tools at its disposal against China. Make it expensive affair. Internationally it is not as easy to make China a Pariah. It may happen as the demographics of he nation changes. Wait and keep the pot boiling to a time of your advantage. Liberation of Tibet should be tacit goal. Unsaid, but on our minds all the time.
I think most of us are missing the point.
In the end, as China itself has taught to the world, future relations will depend on the perceptions we project to the opponent and to the world at large. Our taking a stand and refusing to back down from preserving our territory and staring a much stronger China in the eye, despite obvious threats of war and annihilation have stumped China, which had got used to the perceptions we projected earlier of a weak state willing to eat the humble pie and desperate to pursue peace even in face of grave provocations.
This is probably the reason we have been chosen to message to the world at large that the Chinese have arrived in the arena as a powerful alternative to Europe and US and that any resistance is not only foolish but also futile.
That this proved to be a miscalculation, with Modi standing firm unlike earlier when in face of worries of Chinese displeasure we were even unwilling to visit Tawang, our own area.
Now that the Chinese have committed themselves, they are in a situation that if they are unable to force a step down by India on seemingly their own terms, the war of narratives will be lost and they will face immense resistance in every other theater of expansion / enforced trade. That this will have huge implications to Xi’s and in fact the CPC’s position internally is an added factor.
I feel that viewing the present contact only in terms of a few billion dollars trade or a few Km of land is wrong. The game and the prize at stake is far bigger.
Ha ha ! Commies echoes their master’s view
Stupid article ! Typical slavery mentality ! Will this be same had US behave similar way
Aman ki ASHA 2.0
So the logic is to let the neighbor bleed you by challenging your national interest and sovereignty but nothing should come in between business interest.
This reminds me of people to people contact with Pakistan. Pakistan can kill Indians at will, attack India at will but business should not suffer.
Another gem of JNU cabal.
To know the level of importance China attaches to India, you need to open Global Times. They have the following sections on their website (in order)
– China-US
– China-India
– China-Europe
– Other Regions (includes Japan, Russia, South Korea, Australia, SE Asia, Mid East, Africa, Latin America etc)
Additionally, anyone who understands even basics of Game Theory will know that to get a favorable outcome you have reduce the payoffs for the opposite side and raise costs for them by acting seemingly irrationally. The fact that we’re indicating to China that there will be implications for the larger relationship is the perfect strategy.
The alternative is that we let them assume primacy in the relationship and let them threaten us militarily as and when the please.
The writer is quite correct. China no longer cares for good relationship with India. But, India wrongly presumes so – that peace at border is essential for good relationship between the two countries. How can there be any relationship with China which no longer cares for relationship with India? But, Modi government is behaving like a good school boy, who adheres to rules and expects a pat on the back. This government ought to be more assertive, even agressive while dealing with China. Our soldiers occupying unoccupied heights in Pangong Tso is hardly assertiveness or aggressiveness.
So if tomorrow India heats up border and changes status quo, we should expect China to keep good relations with India? If we consider current relation good anyways – UN permanent seat issue, Nuclear Supply group issue, Support to Pakistans terrorism, illligal construction in POK, no respect of One India policy….. hmmm why would India not care much? My wild guess also says, China making $65 billion from India isn’t such a bad deal.
I can’t believe such shallow articles find space on ThPrint, brings the who standard of this platform down.
The author says linking border peace with relationship may not yield anything, but does not suggest an alternative.
Also the fact that there was peace in the border for 2 decades is a wrong notion. There was peace because we ignored china’s salami slicing game. We have woken up to its implications only now
Among all the views and opinions on India-China relations, this one is closest to the pragmatic and realpolitik relationship between these two nations. You cannot trade horses for bulls, where the power balance is heavily tilted towards the owner of the horse.
The author’s conclusion is certainly the way forward.
India must stick to zero trade till border dispute and demarcation is resolved. China does not care for India’s sensitivities. But India must learn to move on without importing anything from the Rouge state, only then it will earn respect from China.
India may not be big enough market TODAY for China but despite all the hiccups there is a broad international consensus on potential size of Indian market over next 2 decades – see the response of middle eastern nations and US tech giants’ keenness on India.
Political ties once damaged will take a very long time to repair …China will easily miss out on investing dozens of unicorns in India and be a large part of this consumer economy.
And we won’t be a military pushover either…as China has done so is the case with us…once the border infrastructure is upgraded – as is being rapidly done – all the sly behaviour of past by China may not be as effective. …
I would argue we govt is the right track here handling China…and our market will be our biggest strategic weapon..