In May 1974, RSS chief Madhukar Dattatraya Deoras spoke at a lecture series in Pune about caste-based discrimination and social equality within the Hindu fold.
SEBI probe concluded that purported loans and fund transfers were paid back in full and did not amount to deceptive market practices or unreported related party transactions.
While the IAF remains committed to the Tejas programme and has placed orders for 180 Tejas Mk1A, the force is eagerly waiting for the Tejas Mk 2 version.
What Munir has achieved with Trump is a return to normal, ironing out the post-Abbottabad crease. The White House picture gives us insight into how Pakistan survives, occasionally thrives and thinks.
Indians must reject all religions and just create book of ethics, rights and duties. We should also destroy indian constitution as it is piece of trash full of old shit and make a new one that does not recognize caste or religion. Anyone borne in india will have right to high quality house, healthcare and education. No discrimination even if a person is disabled physically or mentally as simple as that. Current system of government is the biggest enemy of Indians. Can you imagine, our government is facilitating few individuals or family to own our natural resources, companies by buying from government by taking loan from the government who is holding public money in their banks. We need to start thinking of simpler and fair system. We cant be wasting energy in fixing evils of the past systems.
Hello everyone. It is a pleasure to hear people concern about their right and upliftment. We have to know the root of caste system before fighting against it. We can divide practice of caste into many period chronologically such as
1. Introduction of caste system in society
2. Caste system in politics
3. Evolution and adaptation
4. Enlightenment
1. Introduction
During vedic period varna system was introduced to differentiate a student from gurukul to choose his field of occupation. If a student is good in studies and can memorize slokas he got brahman varna and so on. It is called meritocracy.
2. Entry into politics
Normaly king was chosen from warrior class so a king obviously would not see his son as shudra. At that time state was not free from religion/priests. Then nepotism started. Caste was decided according to birth.
3. Evolution and Adaptation
Caste system was not rigid till Gupta era. Except shudra all three varna was called dwija. Dwija means who takes birth two times. First from womb of mother other after acquiring knowledge. People can move from one caste to other caste if he is capable. A ceremony named upanayan to change caste after studies. It is second birth. But later this ceremony limited to the Brahmin. In this process vertically structured caste stood in society. After Islamic entry into India it was expected that philosophy of equality will work here. But unfortunately caste system enter into islam. After western enlightenment British tried to abolish this but they can’t.
A great struggle was faught by Dr Ambedkar to eradicate caste system. But MGandhi suggest not to eradicate rather to liberalize it. Ambedkar was unhappy with Gandhi but he don’t have much support. After independence Babasaheb also tried to make it possible after death of Gandhi by convincing Nehru. Nehru supported Ambedkar but suggest to upliftment of lower caste by reservations. Now caste system exist in horizontal structures. And now state is free from religion.
4. Enlightenment
Now in the era of fast moving technology we are connected to each other in every aspect of life. The era of suffering is not going to come back. We all knows we are belongs to homosapience. One can only differentiate himself from other in way of genetics. Use of science must be introduced into social structure. Now we already step on the moon so there is no logic in worshiping moon.
Solution in my opinion
At first I request modern parent to give name of their children according to their DNA. Whenever we give name of our child we transfer all our identity on newborn. There is a number way of enlightenment. Before enlightenment your child have to fight with society. And we have to force government to stop use of reservations, religion, caste in employment. Government can use meritocracy. It may be sound stupid. But after study of adaptation of caste it is very clear that total destruction is needed. Hope I didn’t harm sentiment of anyone. Thank you very much.
how can casteism be a BRAMINICAL disease in Islam!!..BRAHMINICAL is a Hindu word..is it a new version or way to malign Hinduism!..you r writing about Islam..what’s the purpose of using the word Brahminical?!!
Casteism racism exists in all religions..whether its Christianity or Islam or Buddhism or Jainism or whtevr..it’s a universal truth..but don’t use the word “BRAHMINICAL” with islam cuz brother or sister who gets converted to other religions has nothing to do with the term Brahminical..
Abusing bramhin for problems in Islam is a new way of maligning. Converted to Islam only to be discriminated and instead of sorting that issue within the religion why drag indian caste system onto the mix which is basically limited to government reservations ?
Pasmanda Muslim Movement is conveniently encroching upon Dalit-Muslim Movement as it is a co-equalent movement of OBC Hindus among Muslims. More than 40% of Indian Muslims belongs to present day Untouchable communities of India unlike the Pasmanda Muslims that are from the OBC communities of Hindu counter parts. Pasmanda Movement lead mostly by “Ansari” cult of Hindibelt states who are in general happens to be OBC Hindu Counter parts of ‘Sudras”, where as Dalit- Muslims are the Counter parts of “Untouchable Caste communities”. One can easily identify Dalit-Muslims from Pasmanda Muslims by comparing British India list of Depressed Classes with the SC list of British India. Pasmanda Muslims enchroched upon the benefits of affirmative action as Dalit-Muslims were not equiped enough to voice their cause due to Socio-Educational-Economic Backwardness and the stigma they carry along with their workprofile. The so-called Pasmanda Muslims never ever had “Roti-Beti-Ka Rishta” with Dalit Muslims, but Jump to erase their identity as if Dalit Muslims are part of them. As a matter of fact Cate amoung Indian Muslims, though not as strong as it is in Hindu society but they not “Homoginious’ in terms of Mirrage, Social Customs, Dining and othe Cultural Practices. Pasmanda Muslims are in general Semi-Skilled, asset holders never have the work Profile on par with Hindu Untouchables that Dalit-Muslims had. Further, We have two different “Ansari’ Muslim communities, one belongs to Upper caste Muslims and the second “Ansari’ community is the counter part of Hindu “Weavers” Bunkar, Devanga, etc.
Being an Indian Muslim of North India, I have observed that behind the curtain, the caste system as well as discriminations based on cast system is very much prevailent in Indian Muslims too. I am planning to create a platform for like minded peoples among Indian Muslims who wants to expose the nexus of thse greedy, selfish and double standard so called representatives of Indian muslims. I really wants to build an association of people who really want the uplifment of all Indians (including all Indian Muslims) irrespective of cast, colour,region religion etc…. These so called representatives of Indian Muslims are actually just safeguarding the intrest of so called ashraf (Muslims of foreign ancestors) indian Muslims only. There are number of muslim leaders of foreign ancestors among Indian Muslims but unfortunately there is a dearth of muslim leaders of Indian ancestors. Now I have started beliving that these fake so called muslim political and spritual leaders of foreign ancestors are primerly responsible for the current worst situation of muslims of Indian origin. The situations of Muslims of Indian ancestors are worst than even the situation of Dalits. These so called asraf muslim leaders of foreign ancestors were never ever really interested in the real development of coverted muslims of Indian origin. History suggest that these political leaders kept the converted muslims of Indian origin willingly weak, and behind them as an assets for themselves. The spiritual muslim leaders of foreign ancestors were not behind. In fact these so called spritual leaders made the job of the political leaders easier. These spritual leaders of foreign ancestors have played the greater role in keeping backward to the muslims of Indian ancestors. These spritual leaders rarely appointment the muslims of Indian ancestors as their khalifa or sajjada nasheen. These so called spritual leaders of foreign ancestors are seems to be castiest and are strong believer of privileges based on birth, heredity and hasb,nasb which they never admit but mostly prove it practically and they have even conditioned their mureeds ( followers) accordingly.
Now the need of the time is that the Indian origin muslim leaders political and more prominently spritual, needs to be groomed and nurtured and must replace the so-called asraf muslim leaders because in a country like India in current atmosphere, I think, spritual leaders have greater impact on mindset and soul of the people than any other leaders. Muslim leaders of Indian ancestors will definitely solve the problems of Muslims of Indian ancestors better than the muslim leaders of foreign ancestors. These so called asraf muslim leaders have failed to make the Indian Muslim’s life better and by taking the moral responsibility of the current dire situation of Indian Muslims, these asraf muslim leaders should resign themselves and must handover the leadership of Indian Muslims to the muslim of Indian ancestors. The state and central government of India should also take a notice of these issues and encourage the muslim leadership of Indian ancestors.
Casteism is a reality among all religions of India, including Muslims, Sikhs, and Christians along with Hindus. However, casteism has no basis in any faith, and it is a product of economics and resource rationing. To have privileges over the resources, humans have crafted classes. It is this arrogance that one is superior to the other, and is the mother of all evil and all conflicts.
Over the years, I have learned that all religions were against any classification of humanity, including Hinduism, but most certainly Islam. Inequality is antithetical to Islam. I will check with Hindu scholars to make sure it is not a part of the Santana Dharma, but injected by Hindu Sharia called Manu Smriti.
This non-sense about Ashrafi among Muslims or Brahmanism among Hindus is an attitude developed over the years and gradually forced onto the Hindu, Muslim, Sikh and Christian communities.
In Bangalore where I grew up, we did not identify ourselves as Sunni, Shia, or Ahmadiyya, nor did we know anything about Ashrafi, Syeds, and Shaikhs. It is sadly dominant in North India and some pockets of South India. Someone needs to correct me if I am wrong.
I have said before and will continue to say which will piss the arrogant among Muslims. I have no problem if you claim to be a direct decedent of the Prophet, as a Muslim, I have no problem with that, but if your claim is to ‘feel’ privileged over others, that is it pure non-senses and un-Islamic. No one is more privileged in Islam than the other, and no none is superior to the other. All are equal, but you get a bonus if you serve fellow humans, who are God’s creation.
Once Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)’s daughter asked him, if she would go to the paradise, he responds that she has to earn it by doing good deeds, i.e., caring for fellow humans and environment. She asks again, and I am the daughter of the Prophet, don’t I get a free pass? Prophet Muhammad says, no, every individual has to earn God’s grace, and no one is entitled to freebies and there is no nepotism in Islam.
A few among Muslims claim that they are Syed’s or Qureshi’s and link their lineage to the Prophet Muhammad. So what? Are you trying to hide behind that name? Is that a privilege? Are you superior to others? Even if you are the daughter of the Prophet, you cannot claim rights over the others. God does not discriminate anyone on the basis of their faith, race, ethnicity or culture, He/she is just, kind, merciful, and equitable.
Mike Ghouse, Author
the Book: American Muslim Agenda
around 30 castes of Indian Muslims were found around Bangalore. ISI of Bangalore published a book on caste among Muslims of Bangalore some time ago.
Very informative comment, Mr Ghouse. I learnt something new. Thank you. No one clearly knows whether and when Manusmruti was “injected”. Quoting from Dr. Ambedkar’s biography by Dhananjay Keer, “Varna and Jaati are not Manu’s inventions, rather those are his observations”. Manusmriti itself has gone through revisions and in fact has some contradictory verses. It is also well established that Varna and Jaati were not intended to be birth-based but rather degenerated as such over a long period of time.
Regards
Arriving late to the party but I am very glad I made it. Very encouraging to read the comments from both Hindu Muslims alike. Discrimination based on birth must absolutely be addressed. As a society we are happy to live in our respective echo chambers, hurling obscenities at each other without sitting down and discussing the issues at hand.
Politics wont fix it, society will.
Keep writing, keep talking, keep discussing, it is only through amity & economics that civilizations make real social progress.
I am a Indian Christian, and it is the very first time I am learning about the caste system being followed among Muslims in a manner similar to that among Hindus. The way Islam is practised, I find is rather alien especially with their women not only wearing burqa but also covering their faces, which seems to be followed even by the educated among them, and which to me is abominable. Man is supposed to be a social being which I had learnt in Civics 70 years back in school, and this practice still continuing in my opinion is anti-social. Anyone practising this or promoting this is therefore ANTI-SOCIAL. It looks to me that those who had converted to Islam in the past from Hinduism actually had gone from the frying pan to the fire.
I am working with Dalit-Christians for the last 18 years. We have filed cases in apex court to de-link religion with SC status also. Caste is a reality that can’t be changed in India unlike Religion.
Caste ia a Hierarchical System which migh have been suitable for “those”” times.One is NOT sure who is responsible for it,as it is a way of Management of the Society,Kingdoms,Nation etc in this part of the World.Now who s responsible for Monarchy in the UK[at least England],some parts of Europe and some West Asian Nations like Saudi Arabia?Is this NOT a form of Caste.Surely Brahmins are not responsible for it,as Hierarchy is a universal phenomenon.Examples:-
1.Modern Corporations with CEO,Management,Staff and Contract Labour
2.The Government with its Head and other Ministers
.3.The Church with Pope etc
4.The Military with its cadres
the list is endless.
The List is endless
Wow. An eye opening article
I had always wondered how come the issues of underdevelopment do not take center stage among Muslim politics, which always seems to be trapped in secular vs communal debate.
Great article
Eye opener .
May equality blossom globally
Indians must reject all religions and just create book of ethics, rights and duties. We should also destroy indian constitution as it is piece of trash full of old shit and make a new one that does not recognize caste or religion. Anyone borne in india will have right to high quality house, healthcare and education. No discrimination even if a person is disabled physically or mentally as simple as that. Current system of government is the biggest enemy of Indians. Can you imagine, our government is facilitating few individuals or family to own our natural resources, companies by buying from government by taking loan from the government who is holding public money in their banks. We need to start thinking of simpler and fair system. We cant be wasting energy in fixing evils of the past systems.
Hello everyone. It is a pleasure to hear people concern about their right and upliftment. We have to know the root of caste system before fighting against it. We can divide practice of caste into many period chronologically such as
1. Introduction of caste system in society
2. Caste system in politics
3. Evolution and adaptation
4. Enlightenment
1. Introduction
During vedic period varna system was introduced to differentiate a student from gurukul to choose his field of occupation. If a student is good in studies and can memorize slokas he got brahman varna and so on. It is called meritocracy.
2. Entry into politics
Normaly king was chosen from warrior class so a king obviously would not see his son as shudra. At that time state was not free from religion/priests. Then nepotism started. Caste was decided according to birth.
3. Evolution and Adaptation
Caste system was not rigid till Gupta era. Except shudra all three varna was called dwija. Dwija means who takes birth two times. First from womb of mother other after acquiring knowledge. People can move from one caste to other caste if he is capable. A ceremony named upanayan to change caste after studies. It is second birth. But later this ceremony limited to the Brahmin. In this process vertically structured caste stood in society. After Islamic entry into India it was expected that philosophy of equality will work here. But unfortunately caste system enter into islam. After western enlightenment British tried to abolish this but they can’t.
A great struggle was faught by Dr Ambedkar to eradicate caste system. But MGandhi suggest not to eradicate rather to liberalize it. Ambedkar was unhappy with Gandhi but he don’t have much support. After independence Babasaheb also tried to make it possible after death of Gandhi by convincing Nehru. Nehru supported Ambedkar but suggest to upliftment of lower caste by reservations. Now caste system exist in horizontal structures. And now state is free from religion.
4. Enlightenment
Now in the era of fast moving technology we are connected to each other in every aspect of life. The era of suffering is not going to come back. We all knows we are belongs to homosapience. One can only differentiate himself from other in way of genetics. Use of science must be introduced into social structure. Now we already step on the moon so there is no logic in worshiping moon.
Solution in my opinion
At first I request modern parent to give name of their children according to their DNA. Whenever we give name of our child we transfer all our identity on newborn. There is a number way of enlightenment. Before enlightenment your child have to fight with society. And we have to force government to stop use of reservations, religion, caste in employment. Government can use meritocracy. It may be sound stupid. But after study of adaptation of caste it is very clear that total destruction is needed. Hope I didn’t harm sentiment of anyone. Thank you very much.
how can casteism be a BRAMINICAL disease in Islam!!..BRAHMINICAL is a Hindu word..is it a new version or way to malign Hinduism!..you r writing about Islam..what’s the purpose of using the word Brahminical?!!
Casteism racism exists in all religions..whether its Christianity or Islam or Buddhism or Jainism or whtevr..it’s a universal truth..but don’t use the word “BRAHMINICAL” with islam cuz brother or sister who gets converted to other religions has nothing to do with the term Brahminical..
Thanks for the article. Very informative.
Abusing bramhin for problems in Islam is a new way of maligning. Converted to Islam only to be discriminated and instead of sorting that issue within the religion why drag indian caste system onto the mix which is basically limited to government reservations ?
Pasmanda Muslim Movement is conveniently encroching upon Dalit-Muslim Movement as it is a co-equalent movement of OBC Hindus among Muslims. More than 40% of Indian Muslims belongs to present day Untouchable communities of India unlike the Pasmanda Muslims that are from the OBC communities of Hindu counter parts. Pasmanda Movement lead mostly by “Ansari” cult of Hindibelt states who are in general happens to be OBC Hindu Counter parts of ‘Sudras”, where as Dalit- Muslims are the Counter parts of “Untouchable Caste communities”. One can easily identify Dalit-Muslims from Pasmanda Muslims by comparing British India list of Depressed Classes with the SC list of British India. Pasmanda Muslims enchroched upon the benefits of affirmative action as Dalit-Muslims were not equiped enough to voice their cause due to Socio-Educational-Economic Backwardness and the stigma they carry along with their workprofile. The so-called Pasmanda Muslims never ever had “Roti-Beti-Ka Rishta” with Dalit Muslims, but Jump to erase their identity as if Dalit Muslims are part of them. As a matter of fact Cate amoung Indian Muslims, though not as strong as it is in Hindu society but they not “Homoginious’ in terms of Mirrage, Social Customs, Dining and othe Cultural Practices. Pasmanda Muslims are in general Semi-Skilled, asset holders never have the work Profile on par with Hindu Untouchables that Dalit-Muslims had. Further, We have two different “Ansari’ Muslim communities, one belongs to Upper caste Muslims and the second “Ansari’ community is the counter part of Hindu “Weavers” Bunkar, Devanga, etc.
Being an Indian Muslim of North India, I have observed that behind the curtain, the caste system as well as discriminations based on cast system is very much prevailent in Indian Muslims too. I am planning to create a platform for like minded peoples among Indian Muslims who wants to expose the nexus of thse greedy, selfish and double standard so called representatives of Indian muslims. I really wants to build an association of people who really want the uplifment of all Indians (including all Indian Muslims) irrespective of cast, colour,region religion etc…. These so called representatives of Indian Muslims are actually just safeguarding the intrest of so called ashraf (Muslims of foreign ancestors) indian Muslims only. There are number of muslim leaders of foreign ancestors among Indian Muslims but unfortunately there is a dearth of muslim leaders of Indian ancestors. Now I have started beliving that these fake so called muslim political and spritual leaders of foreign ancestors are primerly responsible for the current worst situation of muslims of Indian origin. The situations of Muslims of Indian ancestors are worst than even the situation of Dalits. These so called asraf muslim leaders of foreign ancestors were never ever really interested in the real development of coverted muslims of Indian origin. History suggest that these political leaders kept the converted muslims of Indian origin willingly weak, and behind them as an assets for themselves. The spiritual muslim leaders of foreign ancestors were not behind. In fact these so called spritual leaders made the job of the political leaders easier. These spritual leaders of foreign ancestors have played the greater role in keeping backward to the muslims of Indian ancestors. These spritual leaders rarely appointment the muslims of Indian ancestors as their khalifa or sajjada nasheen. These so called spritual leaders of foreign ancestors are seems to be castiest and are strong believer of privileges based on birth, heredity and hasb,nasb which they never admit but mostly prove it practically and they have even conditioned their mureeds ( followers) accordingly.
Now the need of the time is that the Indian origin muslim leaders political and more prominently spritual, needs to be groomed and nurtured and must replace the so-called asraf muslim leaders because in a country like India in current atmosphere, I think, spritual leaders have greater impact on mindset and soul of the people than any other leaders. Muslim leaders of Indian ancestors will definitely solve the problems of Muslims of Indian ancestors better than the muslim leaders of foreign ancestors. These so called asraf muslim leaders have failed to make the Indian Muslim’s life better and by taking the moral responsibility of the current dire situation of Indian Muslims, these asraf muslim leaders should resign themselves and must handover the leadership of Indian Muslims to the muslim of Indian ancestors. The state and central government of India should also take a notice of these issues and encourage the muslim leadership of Indian ancestors.
Casteism is a reality among all religions of India, including Muslims, Sikhs, and Christians along with Hindus. However, casteism has no basis in any faith, and it is a product of economics and resource rationing. To have privileges over the resources, humans have crafted classes. It is this arrogance that one is superior to the other, and is the mother of all evil and all conflicts.
Over the years, I have learned that all religions were against any classification of humanity, including Hinduism, but most certainly Islam. Inequality is antithetical to Islam. I will check with Hindu scholars to make sure it is not a part of the Santana Dharma, but injected by Hindu Sharia called Manu Smriti.
This non-sense about Ashrafi among Muslims or Brahmanism among Hindus is an attitude developed over the years and gradually forced onto the Hindu, Muslim, Sikh and Christian communities.
In Bangalore where I grew up, we did not identify ourselves as Sunni, Shia, or Ahmadiyya, nor did we know anything about Ashrafi, Syeds, and Shaikhs. It is sadly dominant in North India and some pockets of South India. Someone needs to correct me if I am wrong.
I have said before and will continue to say which will piss the arrogant among Muslims. I have no problem if you claim to be a direct decedent of the Prophet, as a Muslim, I have no problem with that, but if your claim is to ‘feel’ privileged over others, that is it pure non-senses and un-Islamic. No one is more privileged in Islam than the other, and no none is superior to the other. All are equal, but you get a bonus if you serve fellow humans, who are God’s creation.
Once Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)’s daughter asked him, if she would go to the paradise, he responds that she has to earn it by doing good deeds, i.e., caring for fellow humans and environment. She asks again, and I am the daughter of the Prophet, don’t I get a free pass? Prophet Muhammad says, no, every individual has to earn God’s grace, and no one is entitled to freebies and there is no nepotism in Islam.
A few among Muslims claim that they are Syed’s or Qureshi’s and link their lineage to the Prophet Muhammad. So what? Are you trying to hide behind that name? Is that a privilege? Are you superior to others? Even if you are the daughter of the Prophet, you cannot claim rights over the others. God does not discriminate anyone on the basis of their faith, race, ethnicity or culture, He/she is just, kind, merciful, and equitable.
Mike Ghouse, Author
the Book: American Muslim Agenda
Just great . Write more and more
around 30 castes of Indian Muslims were found around Bangalore. ISI of Bangalore published a book on caste among Muslims of Bangalore some time ago.
Very informative comment, Mr Ghouse. I learnt something new. Thank you. No one clearly knows whether and when Manusmruti was “injected”. Quoting from Dr. Ambedkar’s biography by Dhananjay Keer, “Varna and Jaati are not Manu’s inventions, rather those are his observations”. Manusmriti itself has gone through revisions and in fact has some contradictory verses. It is also well established that Varna and Jaati were not intended to be birth-based but rather degenerated as such over a long period of time.
Regards
Arriving late to the party but I am very glad I made it. Very encouraging to read the comments from both Hindu Muslims alike. Discrimination based on birth must absolutely be addressed. As a society we are happy to live in our respective echo chambers, hurling obscenities at each other without sitting down and discussing the issues at hand.
Politics wont fix it, society will.
Keep writing, keep talking, keep discussing, it is only through amity & economics that civilizations make real social progress.
I am a Indian Christian, and it is the very first time I am learning about the caste system being followed among Muslims in a manner similar to that among Hindus. The way Islam is practised, I find is rather alien especially with their women not only wearing burqa but also covering their faces, which seems to be followed even by the educated among them, and which to me is abominable. Man is supposed to be a social being which I had learnt in Civics 70 years back in school, and this practice still continuing in my opinion is anti-social. Anyone practising this or promoting this is therefore ANTI-SOCIAL. It looks to me that those who had converted to Islam in the past from Hinduism actually had gone from the frying pan to the fire.
I am working with Dalit-Christians for the last 18 years. We have filed cases in apex court to de-link religion with SC status also. Caste is a reality that can’t be changed in India unlike Religion.
Caste ia a Hierarchical System which migh have been suitable for “those”” times.One is NOT sure who is responsible for it,as it is a way of Management of the Society,Kingdoms,Nation etc in this part of the World.Now who s responsible for Monarchy in the UK[at least England],some parts of Europe and some West Asian Nations like Saudi Arabia?Is this NOT a form of Caste.Surely Brahmins are not responsible for it,as Hierarchy is a universal phenomenon.Examples:-
1.Modern Corporations with CEO,Management,Staff and Contract Labour
2.The Government with its Head and other Ministers
.3.The Church with Pope etc
4.The Military with its cadres
the list is endless.
The List is endless
Wow. An eye opening article
I had always wondered how come the issues of underdevelopment do not take center stage among Muslim politics, which always seems to be trapped in secular vs communal debate.