Raipur: Chhattisgarh Chief Minister Bhupesh Baghel had devised a Plan B and C for the Congress’s plenary preparations last month, anticipating a raid by the Enforcement Directorate (ED). “When there’s an election in the state, there will be raids,” he told ThePrint.
In a wide-ranging interview after the All-India Congress Committee (AICC) plenary in Chhattisgarh capital Raipur, Baghel discussed preparations for the assembly polls — in which he is expected to once again be the party’s CM face — and spoke candidly about hot-button issues such as the killings of three BJP leaders, allegedly by Naxalites, this February.
He also alleged that the BJP and the central government do not want to solve the case of the 2013 Naxal attacks in Jheeram Ghati in which top state Congress leaders lost their lives.
On questions about his apparent push for ‘soft Hindutva’, he claimed that he was doing better than the BJP when it came to cows and Lord Ram, whom he has described as Chhattisgarh’s “bhanja” (nephew). He further pointed out that the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) had “felicitated” him for his efforts in starting a flagship “gobar economy model” in the state.
Excerpts from the interview follow.
Also read: ‘They are scared’, says Baghel on ED raids at Congress leaders’ offices ahead of Raipur plenary
ED officials ‘have shifted families here’
ThePrint: Top leaders of the Congress, including the Gandhis, had assembled in Raipur for the AICC plenary. Any tips or advice you received for the upcoming election this year in your state?
Baghel: This was a national plenary. There were people from all over the country. You can say that from every block of the country, there were representatives. This is something that happens once in five years. Initially, we were a little scared about whether or not we would be able to pull this off because this was the first time for us. But we’d divided the work very effectively among our state unit, NSUI (National Students’ Union of India), Youth Congress, Mahila Congress etc. and everyone fulfilled their responsibilities.
In terms of tips, we were told to take everybody along and success would be ours.
ThePrint: Let’s talk about some of the recent, important topics in Chhattisgarh politics today. There were raids by the Enforcement Directorate on your leaders, MLAs, and officials right before the plenary. Are you worried about this?
Baghel: Initially when the raids took place, we were definitely thinking about how and why it happened. But then we understood that it is a working strategy for the BJP. In whichever state they’re not in power, they will trouble the government. Now the public has also understood this and know that this will keep happening. Their officials are permanently positioned here. They’re roaming around. They’ve shifted their families here!
When there’s an election in the state, there will be raids. With the plenary session around the corner, we knew that raids were bound to happen. So, all the heads that we’d appointed (for the plenary) were told that their homes may be raided.
So, we had back-up plans — a Plan B, a Plan C. For example, if someone is raided then that person is caught up. We had a plan for who will work in their place in such a situation.
ThePrint: How did you know raids were going to happen?
Baghel: In these many years, we have figured out how the BJP works. They will not let us do any work without creating obstacles. We knew that every week, or every three-four days, or even every day, something or the other will happen. So, we were mentally prepared. And when you’re mentally prepared you are not worried. You’re prepared.
ThePrint: They’re talking about a coal levy scam…
Baghel: They started this in June and arrested some people. It’s February now. It’s been eight months and they haven’t completed their investigation — and I’m telling you that it won’t be completed till October (when state polls are due).
Tell me something — if this is a coal scam, then why are they raiding the environment department? Why are they raiding the labour department? The people who have nothing to do with (coal) transportation are being investigated. But it’s their wish. They can do whatever they want.
ThePrint: You think this will hurt you in an election year?
Baghel: We are actually reaping the benefits of this. People are seeing that our government is working for farmers, labourers, women, the youth, entrepreneurs, industrialists… everybody.
On Naxal attacks
ThePrint: The other issue that is being talked about a lot, and has even been raised by (BJP president) J.P. Nadda, is the attack by Naxals in which three BJP leaders were killed. The BJP is calling this a conspiracy.
Baghel: All right then, let them conduct an NIA (National Investigation Agency) investigation. Who’s stopping them?
During the (2019) polls, the sitting MLA from the area (Dantewada) was from the BJP. When the campaign stopped before polling day, he wrapped up and came back. He had Z-plus security. After he came home, he sent all his security and his men away. He said that he didn’t have to go out. But he changed his mind and took his car to a busy market area.
On his way back, this terrible tragedy happened (death of BJP’s Bhima Mandavi in an IED blast). The police were investigating it. But we weren’t even told, and the NIA took over the case. They can do the same in this case as well. If they think it’s a conspiracy, let the NIA investigate.
ThePrint: You didn’t know that the NIA had taken over the case?
Baghel: No, we didn’t. It was after the case was taken over that we found out. They could’ve just told us that they think we aren’t being able to investigate and that they will do it now. They could’ve just informed us. But, no. They’re saying it’s their right. And I agree. In fact, I even made the DGP write a letter to them asking NIA to investigate these three cases.
ThePrint: There was a (2013, Jheeram Ghati) case in which top leaders of your party lost their lives. What happened to that case?
Baghel: The (Raman Singh-led BJP) dispensation at the time created a one-member committee under a sitting high court judge. At the time, PM Manmohan Singh was running the government and he’d announced an NIA investigation. Six months later, the government changed. The (BJP-led central) government was not extending support to the nodal officer of the NIA here.
When Modiji came to campaign for the Lok Sabha elections, he said that within 15 days, the perpetrators would be caught. The NIA submitted its final report after Modi’s government came to power. If they’re talking about conspiracy, then I can also point out that those who’d surrendered and were in jail in Andhra Pradesh and Telangana, their statements were also not recorded. They didn’t even take statements from those people who’d been shot at in Jheeram Ghati and are alive. Then what kind of NIA investigation is this?
We asked questions. We said that if the investigation is over, then give us the report. They’d taken over from the state and we said we would complete the investigation. But they are not handing over the case to us.
Second, the person who was the sitting judge in the HC has been made Chief Justice of Andhra Pradesh. Before joining, he submitted the report not to the state government which had appointed the committee, but to the governor. What does the governor have to do with this? He shouldn’t have done that. Now the case didn’t come to us. We then made a two-member committee of retired judges. Then the governor had no option and was bound to hand over the case to the state because this was outside his jurisdiction. And even before that (political) statements started coming in thick and fast.
ThePrint: Top leaders of the Congress were killed in that incident. After so many years, the people know nothing about what exactly happened.
Baghel: It just means that the BJP doesn’t want to let this investigation happen.
Also read: Political murders or Maoist ‘desperation’? What’s behind killings of 3 BJP workers in Chhattisgarh
‘Soft Hindutva’, gobar economy
ThePrint: It is said that you’ve appropriated two of the BJP’s biggest poll planks. You floated a ‘gobar economy model’, you’ve called Lord Ram Chhattisgarh’s bhanja (nephew). Some would call this a ‘soft Hindutva’ push.
Baghel: The BJP knows nothing other than the politics of polarisation and communalism. They have mastered it. What we’ve done in Chhattisgarh is cultural. The fact that we have a unique culture was the foundation of our statehood. We didn’t do all this to oppose the BJP. We did it because we are proud of it.
For example, we have 30 festivals in Chhattisgarh. We declared all of them holidays and made sure to celebrate them in the CM house. There are many native sports and games in Chhattisgarh. We promote them and also, of course, our language. In our culture, the nephew doesn’t touch his uncle’s feet. Even if the nephew is five years old and the uncle is 70. It’s because Ram is our nephew.
ThePrint: Can you tell us more…
Baghel: Chhattisgarh is Kaushalya’s maternal home. That is why we think of Ram as our nephew. Chhattisgarh also has the only temple for Mata Kaushlaya in the world. If the BJP couldn’t do this in 15 years of government, and we have, what is ‘Hindutva’ about it?
ThePrint: There was a time when Congresspersons used to align with Ram less and Marx more. You’ve come a long way from there…
Baghel: Mahatma Gandhi’s sandhya bhajan started with Raghupati Raghav Raja Ram. Even now, when the Congress has any major programme, we start with that bhajan. The RSS people at the time asked people not to talk about Ram because Ram was for Congressis. It was after the 80s, when the Ayodhya incident happened, that they adopted Ram for political gains.
ThePrint: So, Ram originally belongs to the Congress?
Baghel: Ram is saakaar as well as niraakaar (with form and formless). Everyone worships Ram their own way.
As Kabir says: “Ek Ram Dashrath ka beta, ek Ram ghat ghat mein baitha.” (There’s a Ram who is Dashrath’s son, and a Ram who sits in the holy vessel in everyone’s home.)
Kabir believed in a niraakaar Ram. Ram has not been patented by BJP!
ThePrint: In a speech at the plenary, Shashi Tharoor said that the Congress should be clear about its ideological stand. The party needed to be more vocal on the Bilkis Bano case and cow vigilantism…
Baghel: We need to go back to the Congress of Nehru, Gandhi, Maulana Azad. We need to take everyone along. That time was about respecting everybody. It was not about going away from any religion — Hindus, Muslims, Jains, Buddhists, or Adivasis.
ThePrint: So, Congress needs to go back to its centrist ideology?
Baghel: It doesn’t need to go back. It is still like that.
ThePrint: A lot has been said about the gobar economy in Chhattisgarh…
Baghel: Since (the BJP has) been contesting elections in the state, they talk about gai, Ganga and then Ram. They don’t do anything. They just ask for votes. They exalt gau mata, but when someone is out to buy or sell (cows), they’re killed.
By all means, investigate people who are indulging in cow slaughter. But one can’t take law into one’s own hands. And what have they done for gau mata? They say they are devotees of Krishna. Fine. But Krishna served gau mata. Feed them. Save them from floods.
They just talk about it but we have connected (cows) to the economy. Today, cow-rearing is not economically viable. Hence, our government took the decision of buying cow dung. Again, due to increasing population, cow sheds are disappearing in villages. They’re getting illegally occupied and houses are being built on them.
So, in 10,000 panchayats we acquired 1,50,000 acres of land and turned them into gauthans (cattle-care centres) where cow dung was procured from. We are using the cow dung to make vermicompost. We have procured 100 lakh quintals of cow dung and made 20 lakh quintals of vermicompost.
ThePrint: We’ve heard that after the gobar economy model took off, members of the RSS had come to you and sought a collaboration.
Baghel: Yes. They even felicitated me. If anyone wants to do seva of gau mata then let them do it. But they won’t do that. They will just ask for votes.
ThePrint: How active is the RSS in your state?
Baghel: The RSS has always been active here. Because our state is close to Nagpur, the RSS people here are strongly bound. They do as they are told.
Also read: Artisanal soaps to lavender tea, Chhattisgarh’s gobar revolution is helping rural women
On ‘Chhattisgarh model’
ThePrint: At the plenary, senior Congress leaders said that one scheme of yours — the Kisan Nyay Yojana, a direct cash transfer scheme for farmers — should be implemented across the country….
Baghel: In 2014, Modiji brought the Gujarat Model. Only a few friends benefited. What did the country get? Demonetisation, GST, lockdown. And we saw that his friends went from no. 609 to no. 2 (a reference to industrialist Gautam Adani’s ascent as one of the world’s richest people).
The difference with the Chhattisgarh model is that the money in the state treasury does not go to a handful of people. It goes to everyone.
ThePrint: The PM says that the fact that Chhattisgarh and Rajasthan went back to the OPS (Old Pension Scheme), will put immense pressure on the state in 20-30 years. You will not be able to secure the future of the youth today.
Baghel: Are their futures secured now? This is the first time that I’ve seen a prime minister hand over appointment letters to the youth to show that he’s given jobs to people.
Poll predictions
ThePrint: There is this common belief in political circles that the Congress is very well placed to win the state polls in Chhattisgarh later this year. How much has it helped that the BJP has sidelined Raman Singh?
Baghel: We sidelined him, that’s how we came to power. And in these four years they haven’t found a replacement for him. I don’t understand if he’s their CM face and if not, who is.
ThePrint: Do you agree that Chhattisgarh and Bhupesh Baghel are the Congress’s best bet in the upcoming set of state polls?
Baghel: We are definitely coming back in Chhattisgarh. The Congress is very strong here.
ThePrint: By how many seats?
Baghel: We had 68 seats and now we have 71 in a 90-member assembly. We are putting in full effort to ensure that we get at least 71 seats.
(Edited by Asavari Singh)
Also read: Rahul Gandhi’s ‘I, me, mine’ to Tharoor showing real crisis—3 days of Congress plenary session